Corrie Sanders vs Rocky Marciano

Humphrey Jackson?

 

As much as you dislike Don Turner, there is no discounting the fact that his opinion counters what Manny has said about Rocky. It does not outscore what Don says just because you like Manny more than Don. And what Don has to say shouldn’t remove Steward either.

You keep using Stewards opinion as some kind of trump card. It really isn’t.

 

Has Steward ever said things like;
Andre Ward is an ordinary fighter,
Salvador Sanchez is an ordinary fighter.
The shoulder roll is bull ****.
Hook and jab pads are bull****.
Floyd Mayweather Jnr would be a 6 round fighter at best back in the day.
Cut men are a con and a scam.
Marciano could beat both the Klits at the same time.
Marciano knocks out Wlad with the first punch he lands.


I'll tell you what Steward did say about Turner when Lewis was up against a Turner handled fighter.
"Don Turner is our secret weapon".

I had a conversation with Springs Toledo about Turner recently,I won't break a confidence by revealing it, suffice to say it reinforces my own view. Manny Steward said Marciano was too small to compete against modern heavyweights,that he fought old men in a weak era, and that he had balance issues.Posters will make of that what they will.If one is inclined to accept his opinions it does not follow that we have to accept Turner's more outrageous ones and I don't.
I'd also like to know what fights of Marciano's Turner saw in the flesh.

 

Being a trainer doesn't put you on an unassailable pedestal. They're just people with opinions, at the end of the day, and what they say cannot be held apart from sound logic and reason simply because they said it.

Judging both men as individuals there is a clear difference in quality of character. Turner strikes me as a blowhard and a bullpooper, while Manny strikes me as a sound thinker and dispassionate analyst. You were far more likely to get an accurate and in-depth breakdown from Manny than you were from almost anyone else in the sport, and while he wasn't immune from his own biases (professional or personal) you weren't ever likely to hear him say half the simple minded guff guys like Turner regularly came out with.

Regardless of the fact that they're trainers just judging both men as individuals I respect Manny a whole lot more.

 

You would be a fool to rate me as any authority,I'm just a fan and an average poster.
I think Steward can justifiably be called an authority on boxing,if he isn't one who is? I'd prefer this thread to get back on track its about Sanders v Marciano , not Turner v Steward, and I don't know why Choklab re -introduces them at every opportunity

 

It's kind of startling to look at the timeline of heavyweight boxing and see that natural southpaws weren't allowed to exist as southpaws for most of its history. Then, they were avoided. Even modern guys like Bowe, Lennox, and Tyson never really fought any decent ones, if any at all.

Classic guys in particular wouldn't have even had good southpaw sparring available because there was no need for it. They'd be at s massive disadvantage vs modern southpaws for that reason alone. The size disadvsntdes wouldn't help.

 

And that X factor is what makes the bout interesting, doesn't it? Those darts he threw from the outside were not telegraphed & he was not one of those establish the jab and see what the other guy does type fighters. He looked to test a guy early and ambush them.

Corrie also had a nasty right hook and that's another big shot coming from a guy you just couldn't prepare for. It's a tightrope act early, but Rocky proved he can walk the tightrope and come out with a win.

I wonder if Rocky would get badly hurt or shaken or just what happens if one of those left hands bounces off the top of his head...not his chin. I think his chin is going to be tough to connect on but the top off his head would not be. The accuracy of Sanders comes into play here as well and makes things very interesting especially for the first 3 rounds or so. Eating a straight shot on the temple--with an unseen punch-- from a guy like Sanders is a real test.

The guy with the bad back that fought Moore would be a little too upright, I think. He has to get real low and then spring up. What physical conditioning it takes just for his legs compared to most guys. So much energy consumption without even getting into his punching. I'd like to see a ton of other fighters with his conditioning.

A very interesting fight and a dangerous opponent.

 

I always thought Stewart s ramblings had to be taken with a grain of salt. They tended to gear towards his training and fighting styles that he liked. Balance from Rocky he says! What a joke. From the man whose top fighter Angelo Dundee said if he had balance would be undefeated. But he didn't and was ; tommy Hearns

 

He was the first great heavy who had both the availability of legit southpaw contenders and the willingness to take them on. Evander gets a lot of credit from me for that, as those were higher risk, lower reward fights (the Moorer series was a perfect example of how the southpaw can have the element of surprise on their side if the orthodox heavy hasn't had enough exposure to it yet)

 

Even when he fell over after missing punches?

 

Since this one is very close, I'll make an unorthodox call and have a bit of fun. I'll take Sanders on points, assuming Sanders is in shape.

Sanders has more skills and range. Much faster feet. After feeling Rocky's power, Sanders could opt to take a points victory. And Rocky after feeling Sanders power could not afford to be as reckless either.

Rocky's short reach would have a hard time tagging the 6'4" tall southpaw's chin.

Sanders did very well vs cruiserweight types, and easily outpointed the iron-jawed Purrity in a distance fight.

 

I agree with you on this. Boxing is not rocket science. If you put as much time in, you are as qualified as anyone else to an opinion. As a wise man recently said, we can debate facts but everything else regarding great fighters in fantasy fights is an ideology. It’s very silly scoring points because one guy who knows no more than the next guy says one thing and the other guy who knows no more says another thing. This is fantasy after all.

It is an opinion to rate one over the other in regards to respect. And that is all it can be. There is nothing factual we can debate that proves Don is worth less or more than Manny, and if there was a way to factually prove this it would not effect opinion. Since opinion and fact are always separate issues.

 

like Mike Ttson did against Bones Smith? Like many other great fighters did?

 

Marciano's entire reputation is made of defeating shop worn, , balding and skinny old man.......some of them had a certified glass chin but nevertheless they still marked him up or even knocked him down.....fact not fiction.

Marciano does not have one young, prime, large and skilled Champ on his resume, zero, the flash in the pan Sanders absolutely creamed WK and he did not have to get off the deck to do it or was bleeding all over the place.

That WK version of Sanders, while certainly beatable by modern sized Heavyweights of the last 30-40 years, would do a number on the Italian Stallion, you can bank on it......tall, strong rangy extremely fast. accurate and fast starting southpaw with top notch power= Doomsday for Marciano.

On a side note, Marciano looked tiny next to ancient Louis.........he literally would look like a Dwarf next to Sanders.......but it does not matter to the Classic section Marciano worshippers.....David always wins against Goliath , no matter how absurd the odds of actually pulling it off are.

 

You see, I am happy to debate facts at a rational level, and even make allowances for folks who are new to the game...but this is really exposes your knowledge and understanding right there.

What era did Sanders dominate?

Rocky was what was required at that time. The rules and the training of that day produced his sized men at the top of an open, level, playing field.

you don’t get to bypass levels of greatness based on the visual appearance of men at the top of their game in the pre steroid era. America last century produced the tallest people on earth, yet with the training, diets, rules available back then those giant guys made no impact until the steroid era.

With 1950s boxing training and diet perhaps a man as tall as sanders would be too thin armed and long necked to be successful at sports. Too unsuitable for boxing with weak stamina.