Cotto better than Kessler??

I do admit that he is a very smart fighter and is a calculating fighter. Dont get me wrong, he is no bum. But I think Calzaghe has his #.

 

It is the complete opposite mate. You are confusing greatness and P4P bestness.

 

Why do fighters only make the p4p list then after beating other top p4p fighters? How do you think it works, because that has always clearly been my understanding.

 

I really like Cotto. I think he deserves his spot on the P4P list. In regards to Kessler I dont think he can claim a spot until he beats Calzaghe. That however will be an achievement that should send him quite far up (4-7) on the P4P list.

For now there is not much relevance in discussing Kesslers P4P status.

 

This means that it is virtually impossible for a Strawweight fighter to ever get a spot on the P4P list?

 

Exactly. When have you seen a straw weight fighter on the p4p list. I also went on to say in my original post that it is by beating TOP QUALITY opposition. So if a straw weight fighter unified and dominated their division then they would be a great chance. What I was highlighting is that p4p isn't based upon a certain individuals perception of talent, but rather on achievement inside the ring. In this reagrd Cotto out weighs Kessler at the moment.

 

Good man, good luck to your boy Kessler I hope the fight lives up to the hype. If Kessler can deal with Calzaghes hand speed he will have a great opportunity to become the 168lbs King.

 

Because the P4P lists are flawed.

P4P by it's true and pure definition is about ones ability at their own weight. Which is why Calzaghe, without beating too many legends was P4P number one from roughly 2000 until 2007 (Calzaghe may have aged since then and may now be slightly lower.)

The P4P lists being based on resume is part of the Anti-European American boxing media conspiracy. As only American (North and South American) names matter, they are hugely American biased.

 

Much better than Kessler!

 

Many journalists, if not most, actually include one's achievements at their own weight in this very definition. For example, beating up a prime Paul Briggs at 175 may be physically easier than beating up a prime David Tua at Heavyweight, but in terms of P4P achievement (ie a 175 lber beating Briggs and a HW beating Tua), the achievements could be placed at a similar level, argued back and forth, etc.

Clearly achievements factor heavily into the P4P rankings.

 

Kessler's underrated.

 

Achievement can be a useful indicator of ones ability, but is not the be all and end all. Joe Calzaghe would still have been the P4p number one, even if all of his fights had been against Eric Crumble.

 

How can you prove that Calzaghe has more ability then any other fighter though? You can't. The only way to judge p4p ability is to look at how fighters achieve against top quality opponents. For instance, I believe that Miguel Cotto is one of the most talented fighters in the sport. I also realise that because this is just my opinion, and like any opinion it carries my own bias and preferences, that it can not possibly be considered fact. Because of this, the only possible way to actually prove he is talented is to judge how he preforms agaisnt other great fighters. There are many obvious flaws to this, especially in the case of guys like Calzaghe who fought for an extended period in a division largely devoid of boxing talent. In cases such as this, the fighter does not have equal opportunity to rise the p4p ladder. Unfortunately, it appears that there is no real solution to this problem, as trying to judge boxers on talent alone would leave to much open to bias and interpretation.

 

I can understand your frustration, because IMO Roy Jones JR is hands down the most talented fighter of all time. Unfortunately, he is no where near the no1 ATG though, as he never had the best opponents to prove his skill against. Because of this, the experts will never get the recognition that I feel his skills in his prime truely deserved.

 

So a new young fighter turn pro, we have never seen any ability or any talent like this before, he can be the Tiger Woods of boxing, 3 fight 3x KO1.

Shall we put him as P4P #1?

After this he chooses to only fight 4 round bouts and only once a year or so, he does not want to fight the best but is handpicking B-level opponents with some reputation. Anyway he max needs 3 rounds to put them to sleep.

P4P#1?