Cotto: Elite WW?

Nah.....that fight was close. Miguel pulled it out b/c he finished stronger and acted like a champion. Josh was complaining and looking for help from the ref. Not a way a champion should have acted....I think he lost the fight with being weak in mind although he put up a hell of a fight. In my opinion he lost a close competitive fight....but...if Josh got the nod I wouldn't have complained. I would have just felt Cotto won....just like I thought Shane won agianst Miguel....but that was also a close compeitive fight.

 

definitely elite, its hard to be on the top of the elite if the guys like PAC, Floyd,
Mosley or brick hand Margarito are around. That is sport, not being the cheery
on the cake doesn't mean not being elite.

 

So you're saying that Cotto won because of his personality??? Because he "acted like a champion"???


How about the fact that he was outlanded by 179 punches?
And that he was outlanded in 8 out of 12 Rounds?
And that Cotto was on his bike for the entirety of Rounds 7-12?


He just wins because he looks like a champion inside MSG on the even of the PuertoRican Day Parade? GTFOH with that ****.

 

i think they thought the poll meant elite WW fighter currently, so yes. but all time no.

 

No...not at all. Cotto's personality really isn't that great to begin with. I'm saying as a champion....YOU ACT LIKE ONE. DLH when he lost to Tito in a fight he won ....LOST b/c of NOT ACTING like a champion. He coasted and sat on a lead he felt was too large for Tito to overcome...and it probably was, but DLH deserved to loose and has no one but himself to blame. You are either a champion, who acts the part or a title holder. Josh acted like a title holder while Cotto acted like a champion.

Josh dissapointed me with his bitchin and crying and looking for help from the 3rd man in the ring when he should have just stepped on the gas and TOOK the fight. He was capbable of doing so but he was all laxed in his performance. Cotto out worked Josh...even though Josh was more accurate. If you HONESTLY think that that fight was a robbery NBA you gotta take the rose colored shades off homie b/c you are biased.

 

world championship fights are 12 rounds not 6

 

I answered thinking you were asking historically, so said no

but yes, he would be in the top few in the world today still, so elite he is.....

 

very very good , its just that Manny is on a different level right now . Margarito fight , I think something was a bit wrong there , never a big puncher , but looked like he had bricks in his hands.

 

hmm says . . .

I agree with most

'yes' as in one of our generation's current elite/top WWs (he's not the same)
'no' as in overall comparison with "the elite" ATG WWs in history

 

Elite on the Mayweather, Pacquiao and Mosley (yes I know he beat him but Ray Robinson also had losses to guys who were not on his leavel.) leavel? No he is not.
Is he a very good boxer? Yes he is.

 

Maybe not a complete robbery in the true sense...

But most unbiased people would agree that Clottey did more to deserve that fight than Cotto. So for some people to use that fight as evidence that Clottey is somehow weak, and doesn't kow how to win is just plain pathetic.


Some people say Cotto is currently one of the elites, and then turn around and say Clottey is a slow, plodding, crying bum who throws 12 punches a round. It's just not accurate. Clottey is every bit as good, and many feel he is better.

 

To even suggest that Collazo would beat Cotto displays the bias you have towards him. Was Cotto in close fights with Mosley and Clottey yes, but do me a favor and name some other WW's with fights, let alone wins, against both those guys on their resume.... Cotto has two losses but he took on all comers. Winning a close tough fight shouldn't be a knock on you especially when you did so with a 3inch gash (caused by a headbutt) over your eye for 9 rounds.

And a question for you... Since Mosley was "past his prime" when Cotto fought him in 08', what would a loss to Mosley do to mayweathers status given the fact that according to you mosley has been "past his prime" for nearly 3 years now?

 

Yes he was an elite welterweight.

 

Cotto fought the best WW and only came short against Margarito, who was hitting him with cement fists and against Pacman, who's ATG material.

When considering he was labelled damaged goods post the Margarito fight, I think he did very well versus Clottey. He dropped him and matched him despite not seeing out of an eye due to a headbutt (unintentional let's say). The difference in class showed there which is saying quite a bit, since Clottey is an excelent fighter himself.

And against Manny, well... I'd argue he didn't really take the best approach in this fight. He thought he could overpower Manny, which seems... a bit crazy now that you look at it (though most thought he could). If he had boxed more, it would have been closer, still, Manny is Manny, no shame losing to him, having actually won some rounds yourself.

Cotto to me, should have been using the "bycicle stunt" a lot more than he did. Problem for him was... he was too proud to do it. Unlike Floyd, who'll run for 12 rounds if needs be.

But still, from what he showed in the ring, he's certainly reached elite status. Whether that's enough to propel him into the HoF, I don't know, may very well depend on his fight again Foreman.

Regardless of that, Cotto IS an elite fighter. Plain and simple. The current WW is so strong, that really, there are several elite fighters on display. Mosley, Cotto, Manny, Floyd, Paul Williams, Clottey at a small stretch. While leaving out the likes of Judah, who really, is every bit as elite as the others when he's on top of his game. The WW division is incredebly blessed with talent.

To appreciate elite more... you only need to look at the best fighters in the lighter divisions. Hatton, Paulie...
Jab vs Floyd = competitive (at 140 even, if I recall correctly)
Hatton vs Floyd = Floyd playing around, letting the fight go on for people's sake

I have nothing against Hatton, but if he's anywhere near elite, then this WW division must be brimming with ATG talent.

 

Dude....I agree with you...josh was the more "EFFECTIVE" fighter, but he was very conservative. He only faught in spots and allowed Cotto to control the pace.....essentially outworking him over 12 rounds. Even thought Josh did more damage overall I think he was outworked more rounds than not....and unfortunately for Josh boxing is scored round by round.

Nard loosing to Taylor was similar in a way b/c Nard was out worked...he did more damage was more efficent and ended up loosing the fight b/c he lost too many of the early rounds by being TOO conserviative.

For me Josh is one of the TOP ELITE WW's out there today. Which is why Manny is justified in facing a guy this dangerous. Now....I don't agree Josh will win but I also don't agree that Josh "can't find a way to win" or is "weak and Plodding". Josh beat Zab...some feel he beat Cotto and he was beating Marg easily before he broke his hand. All that said he's a very live underdog who has a chance to surprise the masses.