cotto - foreman rbr and discussion

haye's title ISNT a paper title

its always meant the same thing throughout history, its liek arguing about the definition of a hayemaker, its always meant the same thing.

 

Thats beside the point though. Ideally titles should be won and lost inside the ring, the quality of a fight for a vacant title doesn't change that fact.

 

only people using it to describe anything other than the actual definition dont have a clue

a vacated title has always been called a paper belt

foreman was a weak champion, a bad fighter but he was not a paper champion

cotto at 147 and 140 was a paper champion.

 

Paper title is when:

You are the interim champion. The reigning champ vacates. You are given the title by beating the next ranked opponent.

A belt is vacated and the two top ranked guys fight for it.

Haye's WBA title is a bit harder, because Valuev lost it to Chagaev. Chagaev then gets hepatitis and defends it against Skelton. When he faces his #1 contender, Valuev, he fails the medical and is forced to vacate. So, Nikolai being gifted it would make it a paper title except for the fact that Chagaev was in no condition to hold the title and was ineligible to defend it.

Either way, by Haye beating Valuev, the title is validated again, though its lineage is somewhat ****ed. So, not a paper title, even though he won it from a paper titlist. But at least Valuev had held it before.

 

But his level of opposition validated the title somewhat.

 

still doesn't change anything, im a cotto fan btw.

 

I know you are, I've seen you fighting the good fight on the GF. I agree, but there are good paper titlists and bad ones. Cotto's a good one who does hi belt proud.

And his superman pants were awesomely funny.

 

Foreman is the worst world titleist i've seen in quite a while, but the fight sounds interesting to say the least...i'll download when its available and watch later.

Pac rematch at 154??

 

cotto is an atg
i agree his wins have not been of the
historical variety
hes yet to establish himself as the
man in any division
despite the great wins and performances
however the light middle division is
empty so here he is already the man probably
lets see him fight Paul Willliams
the winner would be then the linear champion
in the eyes of most

 

Depends how long your ATG list is Jeff. It would have to pretty deep to include Cotto, and thats no disrespect meant to a very good fighter.

 

:deal cant agree anymore with this post, i rate cotto, but all time great 100, no chance.

If you look at cotto's tenure of being a champ at lww,ww and lmw. He has never dominated the weight class. Ricky Hatton for all the hate hge is receiving at the mo, once totally dominated the lww division. Cotto has never done this. Hence he doesn't get a place in my top 100 atg. The only reason I rate him so high are due to his over; Foreman (due to it being at lmw), Malignaggi (undefeated att), Shane Mosley (one of the best fighters of our generation), Maussa (undefeated att) and Torres (undefeated att) and a Joshua Clottey win (in which he sustained a bad cut and still dug deep to win).

Cotto is a good fighter who i have tremendous respect for, but his legacy will always be overshadowed due to lack of divison rulership.

 

Mad props to Foreman. Stood there with Cotto and soldiered on with a ****ed-up leg as well. As for Cotto, I couldn't be happier. Really good to see some fundamental changes that needed to be made applied in the ring and hopefully it's indicative that the more time he has with Steward, the more refined he'll get. All the talk of him being shot was doing my nut in- it seems anyone who takes on Pacquiao is soon after labelled 'shot' at this point in time; Pacquiao's just ****ing amazing and makes great fighters look avergae, it's as simple as that.

Who nexxx? Some c.racking fights on the horizon for the Puerto Rican warrior. I am quite excited about the possibilities out there, TBH.

 

Since Gavin Rees anyway.

 

No, I honestly think that Gavin is better, Foreman is that bad