Cotto is not the same fighter since Margarito

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by mughalmirza786, Sep 11, 2009.


  1. mughalmirza786

    mughalmirza786 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,774
    0
    Oct 19, 2008
    Ill start by saying, that i didnt buy into this theory most famously expressed by Teddy Atlas. He states in his usual overly dramatic style that cotto has had something beaten out of him in the margarito fight. In essence his confidence is not there the way it was in the mosley fight, which has resulted in him not being confident in fully committing to punches or even defensive maneuovers.

    At first I thought this was usual teddy atlas nonsense however, ive just reviewed the cotto-clottey fight. It isnt evident at first but watch closely at some of the offence and defence cotto does throughout the fight and you will find that he is trying to replicate what he did in the margarito fight. For example in round 6 at the end of the round, clottey is on the ropes but cotto is not moving his head or body to look for angles to land hooks or uppercuts. A strange thing happens. Clottey unleashes around a 6 punch combo on cotto which he attempts to avoid with his hands down by his side using pure reflex and agility (margarito fight?). Unfortunately for him it does not work and he gets tagged hard.

    Another supporting point to the theory that cotto has lost a step is the way in which he now throws uppercuts from range. He no longer confidently steps in to unleash a nice compact uppercut but insteads fires sort of an extended uppercut which always misses the target. On top of this clottey at times in the fight manged to land 4-5 left uppercuts in a row bang on the head of cotto. To me, this is a very worrying sign for miguel when fighting someone like manny who can throw multiple uppercuts off his toes.

    Miguel's defence has now also become passive and basic. He cannot do both offence and defence at the same time nor does he have the same reflexes to lessen the impact of blows. Clottey had a field day on this as its his fight. Clottey has a strong high guard and is explosive when he wants to be. Therefore he lets you hit his arms and elbows only to unleash on you the moment you stop throwing. When i watched parts of the fight in slow-motion one thing became very apparent. Whenever clottey landed it was a clean, hard shot but whenever cotto landed the impact would vary.

    Finally, Miguel has become too static. Comparing the clottey fight to the mosley fight, its almost as if cotto is in slow mo in the clottey fight. He used to be able to move so well on his toes but now he fights more flat footed. Thats a bad point when fighting manny because he is constantly moving which means you have to close that distance quickly and hit him hard. I didnt see any slipping to set up punches by Miguel in the clottey fight but there were plenty of those subtle skills in the mosley fight and his previous fights.

    It probably seems like im coming down hard on cotto and not giving him a chance to beat pacquiao but i honestly believe at some stage their fight, cotto is going to crumble. The fight will most likely be highly competitve but there will come a point where miguel will slow (in terms of reflexes, reaction times and agility) to the extent that manny will force a TKO. The competitiveness of the fight however will be dictated by cotto's size and strength advantage and other intangibles such as pacquiaos ability to take a flush shot from cotto and vice versa.
     
  2. BigReg

    BigReg Broad Street Bully Full Member

    38,117
    5
    Jun 26, 2007
    Excellent analysis.
     
  3. charlievint

    charlievint Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    19,338
    1
    Jul 22, 2004
    There is no question he's a different fighter, but the big question is whether or not he's a better fighter b/c of it. Most fighters after taking a loss, brutal or not will be affected. Positively or negatively. If they are true greats or resliant fighters with a very strong mentality they will become smarter, better and more intelligent as I believe the case to be with Miguel. If they are not able to cope with the loss they end up being worse rather than better which I don't think is the case for Cotto. Cotto is a smarter fighter now after the experience with with Marg.

    I thought Josh would beat Cotto convingingly although I felf Miguel would do well in spots. Miguel truly impressed me by his "W" over Josh who is bigger, stronger and overall his style is a difficult one for Miguels. Too many people don't give Josh credit for being a truly tough fighter who can beat any of the top WW's on any given day...or at least cause them a bunch of problems. Cotto has one thing over Josh which pushed him through the fight. A champions heart. Josh dissapointed me with how he acted and I felt Cotto deserved the win in a very close fight. But I gave Cotto little chance to beat Josh. But I think PAC beats Cotto anyway which we do agree on.
     
  4. IsaL

    IsaL VIP Member Full Member

    50,566
    18,253
    Oct 7, 2006

    Great analysis.
     
  5. shelterr

    shelterr Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,886
    0
    Sep 7, 2006
    Honestly, this pretty much sums up my feelings on Cotto currently. I think it's a ****ing shame that Margos cheating ass tainted a confident and caple Cotto. But he doesn't sit down on his punches the same, and he looks afraid when he is on defense. He looked really sharp pre-Margo.
     
  6. mughalmirza786

    mughalmirza786 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,774
    0
    Oct 19, 2008
    I forgot to mention that clottey is one a hell of a fighter from what i saw in the cotto fight. The way he was snapping miguels head back and forth with 5-6 left hooks and uppercuts at a time was very good. Also he has a very good defence where he can conserve his energy for explosive bursts as in the cotto fight. Manny though is a special fighter and has that aura around him at the moment. What i really want to see is a mayweather pacquiao trilogy.:D
     
  7. mughalmirza786

    mughalmirza786 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,774
    0
    Oct 19, 2008
    Thats a really good point. People need to watch the gomez fight again and see the pure confidence even arrogance of cotto in the ring. The way he was measuring his opponent, picking his shots and countering his albeit overmatched opponent hard is something that is missing from his game lately.
     
  8. BigReg

    BigReg Broad Street Bully Full Member

    38,117
    5
    Jun 26, 2007

    There's no proof whatsoever that Margo cheated in that fight. The State Athletic Commission cleared Margo of any wrongdoing in that fight. Until some evidence comes up, it's only fair to assume that Cotto got his ass torn up fair and square.
     
  9. Pavlik is Champ

    Pavlik is Champ PDub is RUNNING scared Full Member

    1,466
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
  10. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Loyal Member Full Member

    39,748
    3
    Jun 28, 2009
    It's still difficult to say whether Cotto's ability has indeed diminished since the brutal defeat against Margarito. We've only seen him in two fights since....

    Jennings..... was just a confidence builder. The poor Brit was just fed to a hungry beast.

    Clottey..... I'll begin by saying no one looks good fighting Clottey, let alone with a nasty gash that would have ended most fights. But instead of taking it to the judges knowing he was ahead, Miguel continued to fight till the end, which we all must admit is a brave decision. This suggests to me Cotto is still that same beast, and if Pacquiao manages to surpass him, then it would be something very special.

    So has Cotto really deteriated.....? It's impossible to confirm, the deep cut in the Clottey fight hampered his performance, so don't let it fool you in thinking Cotto has lost his spark.
     
  11. JL Fighter

    JL Fighter Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,552
    7,484
    Mar 24, 2009
    I don't quite agree with some of the points but that was a first rate analysis.
     
  12. mughalmirza786

    mughalmirza786 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,774
    0
    Oct 19, 2008
    :deal Also i think the margarito loss is being overlooked because of the hand wraps issue and its being dismissed because of it. Although i do believe the way cottos head began to swell immensely after the 6th lead to suspicion. I think miguel needed a world class trainer pre margarito who could take him to ATG level but now hes stuck merely at elite level and may not improve further.
     
  13. mughalmirza786

    mughalmirza786 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,774
    0
    Oct 19, 2008
    :good
     
  14. Bazooka

    Bazooka Pimp C Wants 2 Be Me Full Member

    44,390
    5
    Oct 23, 2005
    Mentally Cotto is not the same fighter since the Margarito fight, But I think he may have gained some of that back in his two wins since that, and yes I agree Manny isnt no joke with them uppercuts and he has lightning speed in those hands backed with one punch Kayo power we all know this.

    But Manny is still a smaller man, Margarito and I dont know how many of you have seen Margarito up close but he is a big man, and for that man to put it on cotto like that and land the hard shots he did during the entire fight, not just the 2nd half, the first half if you watch Margarito was drilling hard hard very super mother ****in hard body shots on Cotto.

    then you have the 2nd half of the fight in which his work rate picked up and he was damn near hitting Cotto when he wanted to, and look at how much it took for Cotto to fade, look at the body of work it took for Margarito, now there is no way I can say Tony hits harder than Manny, cus Mannys speed does add to his power and when you dont see the shots cus they are comming so fast that can and usally does bigger damage.

    What I can say is that Cotto knows how to work with a fighter that has speed and power, what Happens if Manny cant get Cotto out of there early? I think its a war this fight, but I also want to see Mannys reaction to Cottos body work that is the key in this fight for Cotto good timing and a good production of body work.
     
  15. mughalmirza786

    mughalmirza786 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,774
    0
    Oct 19, 2008
    I worry for miguel because its the first time since the margarito defeat that hes going to be facing a guy as high up ATG P4P rankings as pacquiao is often placed, and that man is in his prime. Also after the beating he sustained in the margarito fight, would he break down easier this time? In the end all cotto can do is train his hardest which he is doing judging by the long training camp and give it his all. Also this is a chance for cotto to enter those ATG rankings and is probably going to be his legacy defining fight.