Cotto landed the least punches vs. an elite fighter, was clearly outlanded

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BigBone, Jun 14, 2009.


  1. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Compubox stats can't decide a fight (for example it doesn't count knockdowns), but are good indicators who was more effective in there. In his closest decision fight to date, Miguel Cotto and Shane Mosley both landed exactly 248 punches on each other, and many felt it was a draw. There were even some who debated the decision and pointed out that Shane landed the more meaningful punches, the power punches (27 more, better connect %).

    In 11 rounds of action, Cotto landed a stunning 292 blows vs. Zab Judah, and ironically outlanded Margarito in another 11 round war before he was stopped. He landed about 40% vs. them.


    Quite interestingly, Cotto landed the least punches in his career vs. an elite fighter (Zab, Mosley, Tony, Clottey) on Saturday, just 179 in 12 rounds. According to stats, he was very ineffective, producing only a 25% connect percentage, which as far as I know, his lowest ever.

    Joshua Clottey outlanded Cotto by 43 punches and landed at a higher percentage (36%). People say judges prefer head punches over body punches when scoring a round (think Mayweather-Castillo I), yet Clottey landed 75 more punches to the head area, according to HBO post-fight analysis.

    It's very rare when a fighter clearly outlands his opponent, loses the fight on points. The knockdown is only one point of deduction in the overall scores, and if there's no knockdown at all, Miguel Cotto still wins the fight by the same split decision (116-112, 115-113, 113-115).


    What do you guys think? Do stats lie or inaccurate enough to be a so vast difference between compubox numbers and the official scores, or do these numbers tell the truth about the fight?

    Discuss! :thumbsup
     
  2. Dempsey Gibbons

    Dempsey Gibbons Member Full Member

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    Before I get into ANY discussion involving discussing a fight based upon Compubox numbers, I have to point out that Compubox is NOT accurate. I have seen too many lopsided numbers in the past that make one really wonder about their authenticity.

    I am not against a "live count" but I really feel it would do the sport justice if Compubox were to amend their numbers by the following day to reflect accurate totals. The fight needs to be analyzed in slow motion to really accurately tally the landed blows.

    Anyhow....landed punches don't really mean squat because fights are judged by points in each round. Landing 900 pitty pat punches in round one and doing nothing in rounds 2-12 will not win a real fight.

    As far as last nights fight. I would not have had a problem with a draw or EITHER man winning by a CLOSE decision. It was a close fight.
     
  3. dfxt

    dfxt Member Full Member

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    in a close fight you have to be subjective. in a close fight when ppl make the argument that a fighter landed at a higher percentage, it probably means that the other guy was busier and threw more punches. you also have to take into account the effect of the punches and how those punch stats were dispersed throughout the rounds. boxing is scored by judges scoring rounds not compubox. compubox doesn't tell the whole story.
     
  4. dfxt

    dfxt Member Full Member

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    not to mention compubox has an element of human error.
     
  5. orlando1145

    orlando1145 Undefeated Full Member

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    He went into a defensive mind fighter after the cut.Cotto couldn't use his left hand as he wanted to because he used that hand to protect himself from Clottey's right hand.

    Cotto was cut during most of the fight and clottey did not pull the trigger,he did not take the risk to finish cotto off.

    Clottey is an elite fighter but he does not have a killer instinct, look after round 5 ended he called the ringside doctor and started complaining about his knee if clottey would have been cut he would have quit the fight in a heart beat.
     
  6. the_truth

    the_truth Boxing Addict Full Member

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    all these stats could be misleading at times... remember judges are not looking at all these stats before they score a round... just like us they judge every round on whoever they felt perform the best in every aspect of boxing... all of them have different ways of judging and what their looking for... these stats are there for the fans that are watching not the judges... some of these stats are off... clottey lost and should only blame himself for not taking the opportunity...
     
  7. Hatesrats

    Hatesrats "I'm NOT Suprised..." Full Member

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    Cool stat's BigBone...
    But I think punchStat only works when it favor's the fighter they like...lol
    (hence you will prob get alot of negative feedback )

    That said, face appearance sometimes shows this aswell.
    (It don't lie about who landed the effective punches.)
     
  8. itrymariti

    itrymariti CaƱas! Full Member

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    I think punchstats run over the way a fight is scored. If you hit me with 50 punches in a round and I hit you with nothing, you take the round. If I hit you with ten punches in the next round and you hit me with nothing, I win the round. Ignoring the possibility of a 10-8 round without a knockdown as there weren't any, we're even on points even if you've landed a lot more.

    The rounds Clottey won were often decisive, thus increasing significantly his punch-count. The rounds Cotto won were often blurry, especially the last two rounds in which he won by moving to stop Clottey landing and throwing the odd flurry. Basically, Cotto fought smart and ended up stealing a lot of rounds (intentionally or not), which earned him the narrow win even if fewer punches were landed.


    Another thing to consider is that both guys had high guards for the first half of the fight. Many punches were therefore glancing blows or bounced off the gloves. What counts as a punch in such a scenario? What if the punch partially hits the head and partially the gloves? What if it deflects? That ambiguity could be causing problems for the computer.
     
  9. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not really... but to be outlanded by that many shots?