Could a 19th century fighter realistically have beaten prime Tyson or Anthony Joshua

maybe Sam Langford might. That man was like some geneticist designed a human body for boxing.

 

I don't think the 19th century fighters were as good as the twentieth century fighters. The first thirty years of the gloved era say 1890-1920 were a lot like the first thirty years of mma 1990-2020. You saw a sport become established and the competitive level turn from amateur to pro, domestic class to world class. That doesn't happen overnight. You also have to remember in the 19th century boxing was actually illegal in most places the same as mma was in the twentieth century; so boxing matches were often held on riverboats, and early mma bouts took place in Indian Casinos to skirt the law. Furthermore, the nineteenth century champs ranged in height from five ten to six foot and would only be light heavyweights or cruisers today.

 

I see Sam Langford something like James Toney, probably best around light heavy or cruiser, capable of mixing it up with the big men, but he was never going to beat Lennox Lewis. A pound for pound phenomenon, but not king material.

 

Jack Dempsey vs Dustin Nichols?

 

They couldn't beat Tyson but they would whip Joshua's stiff ass.

 

Even Butterbean would KO them all.

 

Hi, long time reader, first time poster.

This is the stupidest thread I've ever read on the internet. No 19th century athlete would beat a modern athlete in any sport. I had assumed some of the posts here were ironic, but now I realise they weren't. Boxing attracts some truly odd fans.

 

A young Tyson would have run over Joshua!

 

I guess we'll never know for sure, unless one of you guys invent a time machine and brings some of the top 19th century boxers over to the 21st century's "Mecca of Boxing" for a PPV event.

But you'd have to think the odds are stacked against them really. I think in any sport, or any field away from sport, we're all just piggy backing off our predecessors' work, making improvements as we go along in every field imaginable. I doubt boxing is any different. There would be something seriously, seriously wrong if boxing hasn't moved on in 2 centuries. So all you can be is the best of your era.

So with that, I'd be surprised if any of them last longer than Michael Buffer's ring announcement. One or two might even run before the fight starts.

 

So we're comparing prime 19th century fighters, a prime Tyson and a yet to reach prime Anthony Joshua?

Seems fair to me.....

 

Highly unlikely.

It's probably that whole rose (or greyscale) tinted glasses effect that makes people watch to the oldtimer Heavyweights with awe.
These guys were very good for their time, but hardly even heavyweights, or not even at all in this era. If fans doubt the 2 very technically sound WBSS finalists are big enough to beat the current crop, while having been HUGE for that time period, why would these guys have a shot.
When you see footage or pictures of them, it's not like they can make up for the huge difference in skilllevel. Also, that they had to fight 20 rounds doesn't say much, because the number of rounds doesn't say anything, it's if and how you make it to the final bell anyway.
That there were more rounds doesn't tell you anything about their conditioning. It's not like if modern day boxing went back to 20 rounds, suddenly everyone would have a better condition within a couple of years.

 

Sizeism always wins in the minds of the lazy. You lot should look into the history, physics, kinesiology and anatomy of the **** you claim, but ya wont and even if I show you all you're going is post some lame and short sighted popular belief at me like it's possible I've missed the same tired opinions being repeated by ignorant people.


That said, whose rules are we dealing with? What decade? I mean am I allowed to pick any 19th century fighter, pair him with Joshua, and pick the year and rule set they fight under? Plus or minus racism? Outside or inside?

Tyson-Joshua, take your pick, moves in on Yankee Sullivan and with the very first punch thrown Sullivan falls to the ground and kicks AJ-Tyson in the calf with his steel cleated foot leaving a four inch gash. AJ-Tyson can't land more than a grazing shot and are tiring fast while their legs are being kicked for the same exact reason the inside leg kick is a staple in MMA today, chopping the base. AJ-Tyson tired and with a weak base slows enough for Yankee to box them a bit. They'd be over the moon to box because it is all they know, but for Yanks this ploy only comes when the big man is too tired to hurt him and only serves to tire the big man farther. Once sufficiently equalized Yankee will show them the use of energy over time, throw them to the ground and end them with elbow drops likely killing them due to their size.

Not even the easiest way I can see AJ-Tyson losing and badly to a 19th century fighter. The easiest way is if these poor unfortunate souls found themselves in Tom Hyer's Rough and Tumble ring. Straight up, the **** does Joshua do to a man who will rip off his balls? Gonna punch him in the face? 1840 impromptu bar fights with no rules and body parts on the table, you don't think these men have been hit in the dome with a hammer before getting them nuts? Well, what you think and what history says are two different thing then. AJ-Tyson would lose theys balls.

And that's before you factor in shitty **** like racism or classism.


Finally, I had made a post in another thread detailing the history of big men and medicine and common misconceptions but because it didn't pertain to rules of the sport I didn't mention any of that. Did the rule changes save the small man from the big man? Weight classes were necessary because big dudes where whooping everyone 20 pounds smaller? That's why it's immediately followed by the MW champ beating the HW champ?

Nope, not really. Time did. Having a time limit made is necessary to divide fighters by weight. Limitless fighting favors the smaller man for all the reasons I highlighted in my former post. There is no form of primordial savagery too harsh for 100 something pounds and five foot anything. Big men can't even survive a normal life pre-industrialization let alone a fighter's life. Throw a lime limit on that and now the bigger sized man can give it his all without fear of doing real and serious damage to himself.

Exhaustion was the killer of the day and the guys who are today's HW size are the ones who exhaust easily. So, with that said, take yer pick really, I don't favor any modern HW regardless of size difference to do very well in any past era. If they were born in that era they wouldn't even make it to adulthood. If you magically teleported them to it sure great they're healthy for the first 30 minutes of fighting....whoopdie ****. Imagine AJ after an hour contest. Dude would be killed, smothered most likely.


Modern era they just walk through all those normal sized pussies. In the past I don't think they make it out alive. The transition fighters give you a bad perspective on how mean LPRR was because they are the generation who explicitly went out of their way to make boxing less cruel, take it back to the heart of LPRR and these guys just wouldn't survive. No one did, no one is that great, it just isn't possible.