Could a peak Aaron Pryor have done better v Spence than Garcia did?

There will never be a way to say conclusively one way or another. One camp will say we saw the real Leonard in both fight but only the real Duran in the first, the other camp will say the opposite. I think I've made pretty clear which camp I'm in.

But I didn't really mean to start this age old discussion and I do think Duran put on one of the greatest performances ever in the first fight. I also think that Duran is one of the most gifted and complete fighters to ever lace them on, so I don't think I fit the mould of a "hater".

 

Post fight, Duran told Palomino (ex-WW Champ 5 months removed), to retire, and that Carlos just doesn't have it anymore.

1979-06-22 : Roberto Duran 145½ lbs beat Carlos Palomino 144¾ lbs by UD in round 10 of 10

• Location: Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USA
• Referee: Arthur Mercante 99-90
• Judge: Tony Castellano 99-91
• Judge: Harold Lederman 99-90

"Roberto Duran knocked Carlos Palomino down in the sixth round, mixed boxing with punching and pounded out a 10-round unanimous decision over the former welterweight champion Friday night at Madison Square Garden. The fight was a preliminary to Larry Holmes' World Boxing Council heavyweight title defense against Mike Weaver, but it was the fight most of the fans came to see. Duran didn't disappoint them. The 28-year-old Panamanian, who gave up the lightweight title because of trouble making the 135-pound limit, showed he is deadly serious about becoming welterweight champion. He feinted with his head and shoulders, he jabbed, he countered and of course, he put on the deadly pressure that led to his nickname 'Manos de Piedra' — Hands of Stone. He especially put on the pressure in the second half of the fight, overwhelming Palomino....At the beginning of the sixth round, Duran walked out and knocked down Palomino with a left-right. Palomino bounced up immediately and took the mandatory eight count. He survived the round, but before it was over, he was cut at the corner of his right eye and under the left ear. Palomino held his own in the seventh round, scoring well with hooks inside, but then Duran took complete command in the final three rounds — often smiling from the sheer joy of battle." - Associated Press

Notes

• Duran was a 7-5 favorite.
• The main event was Larry Holmes vs. Mike Weaver for the WBC heavyweight title.
• Feeling that Weaver was an unworthy opponent, all three major networks (ABC, CBS, and NBC) passed on the fight. Madison Square Garden also turned down the bout.
• Promoter Don King rented Madison Square Garden for $150,000, set up a closed circuit network in 45 locations, and sold the television rights to HBO for $200,000.
• Both Duran and Palomino were guaranteed $250,000, but Don King said Duran and his manager agreed to "cut their guarantee to help me. They're going to fight for $100,000 against a bill due later."
• A crowd of 14,136 at Madison Square Garden produced a gate of $771,982.
• Duran and Palomino appeared on the cover of the July 2, 1979 issue of Sports Illustrated.
• Palomino, at the age of 29, retired after the fight. In a 2010 interview with Ringside Report, he explained his decision: "My 30th birthday was coming up and I had promised my mother and myself that I would retire from boxing at age 30, no matter what. During this time, I was really unhappy that I couldn't get a rematch with Benitez and unhappy with the politics in boxing. When I retired, I had finished up my Bachelors Degree in Recreational Administration and had taken some acting classes in college. I really wanted to pursue that."
• Palomino returned to the ring in 1997 and went 4-1 before retiring for good.

External Links

• Associated Press - June 20, 1979
• Associated Press - June 23, 1979
• Ringside Report - July 15, 2010

 

Whew, I won't question your knowledge and powers of observation other than saying its your opinion and your certainly welcome to that. But I see (In my opinion) some obvious omissions from you. 1st you insinuate Arguello was old, what does that make Garcia? Arguello was a year younger than him when he fought Pryor, and still carried concussive power in his hands proved by the many ko's he had right before his fight with Pryor, Garcia hasn't stopped anyone since he was at lightweight, and those fighters were 2nd-3rd tier at best. You say Pryor was a chubby 140 lbs who you insinuate wasn't good enough to be a lightweight or welter, but he was avoided like the plague at lightweight , and that is the reason he went to jr.welter. He probably wouldn't have won the welterweight championship, not with some of the greatest welters in history roaming around that division around that time. Spence SHOULD'VE dominated Garcia, Garcia has the frame of a natural featherweight, if anything, HE looked chubby and just added weight to get up to welter, and his performance clearly showed the size difference was the deciding factor in the fight. Your throwing shade at Pryor for stopping a true ATG, Yet expect knowledgeable fans to praise Spence for beating up a small framed featherweight who hasn't proven anything at welterweight. One thing can be said about Arguello at Jr.welter, that was proven in his last fight.(while he was still championship caliber)He still carried dynamite in both his fist. (Ask B.Costello) .You,like many others jumps on the Magic bottle theory. But completely omit that their were 2 fights between Pryor and Arguello, Pryor stopped Arguello earlier the 2nd fight. And in my opinion, Errol Spence showed nothing A Aaron Pryor or Alexis Arguello would've feared if he fought in their era, I saw plenty of holes in his game that would've been exploited but true great fighters.....

 

The only things Arguello had over Garcia was height and maybe power skills wise they were on par with Arguello having impeccable timing and Mikey better speed....Mikey Garcia is an ATG fighter well on his way to the IBHOF

You are missing the rational point of the whole thing......Arguello's best weight was 130 he was the smaller man......Pryor was a natural 135 who was not being considered at 135 in the title picture and not big and strong enough to handle the 147 top fighters so he fought at 140 the weakest division where no money was being made and the competition weaker......he being the naturally bigger man than Arguello needed the black bottle to come back and stop a very tired end of peak shopworn natural 126-130lb Arguello....Spence is a very very good fighter who has top notch power against Garcias top notch defense....Spence is a KO puncher who IMO pulled many punches because he could not get Garcia a master technician to drop his guard so he threw a lot of touching punches.....he is skilled and not reckless......he is not a slickster either but his skills were great enough to make Mikey Garcia a very good fighter look ordinary......Spence is much much larger, stronger and hits much harder than either Arguello or Pryor and in todays era he is actually stepping into the ring at 160+ is my guess.....The question is on Pryor is why did the bigger stronger man need to cheat to beat a smaller man

 

Boxing age is not about years.....that is all I need to see to know you are not savvy on athletes.....Arguello had a lot of hard fights against top level competition...its the mileage at his level not the years. Arguello was shopworn and tired in that era his age was old.....unlike today. He was getting to Pryor until the black bottle then Pryor miraculously came out in the 14th round on fire like round 1......The black bottle theory is only theory to those who know nothing about Panama Lewis and his long history of cheating culminating in Luis Resto beating Billy Collins eyes closed resulting in a lifetime ban and all the fighters who fought with Lewis in their corners all agree that the black bottle was more than likely tainted with something to rejuvenate the fighter.....also your logic is flawed since water is the only thing allowed in the corner why in the world would Lewis tell his corner to give him the bottle.....the guy grabbed the water bottle and Lewis said not that one the other one the one I mixed? Nw the rematch means nothing because Arguello had passed his peak mentally and physically he was not the same fighter in the rematch nor every fight after...sure he had power but Billy Costello was not a great fighter by any stretch....Arguello had great power for his size but not for a welterweight in todays era with the extra day to rehydrate over that era meaning bigger fighter can dry out to even a smaller weight class and rehydrate to their natural size....some fighter step in the ring 15-20 lbs heavier and so does Spence....this whole thing is the false comparison of Aaron Pryor to top Welterweights a weight class he avoided being comparable to todays huge welterweights with big power. If you saw holes in Spences game as solid of a fighter as he was than what did you see with Pryor??

 

I just feel like you are being a little vague about your thoughts on Pryor in this thread and others. How do you really feel about him?

 

I think there is a handful of us who are not in either camp and think the Real SRL and Duran showed up in both fights. I think SRL didn’t adopt the best plan for his skill set or took Duran lightly in the first, and that overconfident undertrained Duran fought the 2nd fight closer (than some narratives suggest) but was getting frustrated as things didn’t progress the way he wanted. I won’t do the guess work or give a pass for “No Mas” as their are already to many opinions and threads dedicated to it.

As someone who appreciates both (and gets amused/annoyed at both of their fan bases), I feel the real one showed up on both fights.

 

LOL Everything I said about Pryor is fact he was not a big 140 he fought at 135....his hands were low, chin up, average footwork, power and handspeed was average only boosted by volume....objective watching of his fights and study his fundamentals is all you need to see to understand why he would not fight a welterweight unless it was a superfight worth millions.....he would only fight Duran or SRL if their was a lot of money in it....in the boxing world their just wasn't that much interest......Pryor and his team were not stupid they knew he was limited against the best fighters and were willing to cash out if they could get a money fight.

 

Lol and this is the question we want answerd

 

I think round 2 made it a reality. If you see round 1, mostly a feel out round. You can see SRL moving and circling and trying to be the boxer puncher like always. Then round 2 starts, and it's much the same, then boom.... left hook. After that point, I think SRL knew he was in a dog fight and had no other choice but to bring the dog out himself. Other were content to let SRL move and do his thing and set up his left hook. Duran wasn't playing that game and was there to rough up and disrupt SRL mid range game. All of the above was Duran's doing. The only thing I'd say is, I believe once SRL was hurt and knew he could be hurt, I believe he felt like he was the bigger guy, stronger guy and he's going to stand his ground at tag him. As we know, pre fight, Angelo didn't want SRL backing straight up, he said so because of Duran's heel to toe style. He wanted to take the center of the ring and circle him. What happened... Duran hurt SRL when he was backing straight up. So I think at that point, SRL was like, okay, guess I'm going to stand my ground some cause backing up might not be good as Angelo said. Just my thoughts. I think it was a combo of things, but mostly Duran's doing and some pre fight theory that SRL was bigger, stronger, younger, with more reach.

BTW, did the round by round scoring as you wanted in the other thread.

 

Great post here for me .. I agree with it. And to add , what weight to people actually think that Pryor would weigh for this fight? Surprised no one has mentioned it ,, what would it be 144 max? It's amazing how posters like to add weight on a fighter with ZERO experience there and think he is going to carry the extra weight move the same, look the same, and box the same ..

 

Puta it may have been among other things he had going on lol

 

Interesting take. It's a very very fine line imo.

Yes saw the post, great stuff mate.