Could a prime Mike Tyson actually dominate Ali?

boxing evolve Tyson would beat Ali and Tyson would be beaten by superheavys of today!

And Tysons whole style was made to destroy fighter that fought like Ali!

 

Reasonable.

 

Except he couldn't destroy Ali wannabe Tillis, a Journeyman that couldn't carry his jockstrap....

 

Cooper had Ali hurt and Ali said Foreman had him out on his feet, so give me a break. One thing I will say, is no fighter, not Ali not Tyson, not Dempsey, is the same fighter as they were before if they took 3 years off. So to compare a prime Tyson to the Ali of the '70's is ridiculous from the start. Prime for prime, it's a tough call, same as if you substituted Tyson for Lewis. No one can say with any certainty who would win these fights.

 

As much as I like Ali the man, my honest opinion, having actually watched him when he was fighting, is there's a lot of myth associated with him. When younger, he was the fastest heavyweight I ever saw and he aged he could take a punch like no other. But he always was fundamentally flawed and the fact that most never took advantage of it, doesn't mean others couldn't, even if a bit of luck might have been required. Generally speaking he often had a height and reach advantage which he used well, by grabbing a fighters head and pushing it down. Might be able to do that against Tyson, certainly couldn't do that against Lewis. As far as power goes, I would say he needed to land 3-4 punches in succession before he generally could KO a fighter with a good beard.

 

Then of course, so could Liston, Foreman, and Shavers. Oh wait...:yep

 

He probably gave prime Ali his toughest fight. Chuvalo landed a lot of body punches in that fight enough that I thought it was a fairly close fight.

 

He could dominate if Ali is unable to prevent him from doing so.

 

The best Ali intimidates and dominates Tyson. Ali was at a level higher than Tyson in terms of ATG will to win. He outboxes him early. Tyson has to think in a losing fight which he can't do. Rounds pass and Tyson is just taking it not knowing what to do in there. Round 12 Ali hits him with both fists and Tyson, exhausted, is dropped and counted out. Ali is unmarked at fights end. Tyson is beaten to a pulp.

 

That's one of a number of possibilities.

 

When people say that prime Tyson would dominate prime Ali - it's theoretically possible, but the chances of it are slim.

Tillis, Tucker and Douglas had something that troubled Tyson - and Mike never really 'destroyed' any of them.

Tillis even at his peak was worse than Ali in everything - he was slower, smaller, had worse chin, workrate and lesser punch.

Tucker and Douglas as good as they were also weren't Ali either.

Carl Williams? He hadn't Ali movement, footspeed and chin. Same with Biggs.

So there's more evidence that prime Tyson would've had serious trouble vs prime Ali than vise versa.

 

Then you and me have seen different fights.

 

STYLES MAKE FIGHTS. Prime Ali in my opinion loses either unanimously or by way of stoppage. Ali is always stated as having trouble with guys who throw a mean left hook, which he did and we'll get onto that later, Ali's real problem was with guys who could negate his jab then land a stiff counter jab of their own. Prime Tyson was a master at this. His head movement is arguably the best we've seen from a prime HW fighter. His ability to evade punches whilst moving forward would certainly enable him to move into range and score on Ali. Tysons jab is hugely underrated, he's just not given enough credit for out jabbing taller and bigger opponents. I believe Ali's jab would cause Mike some problems, although ultimately Ali's defensive flaws would be his downfall. A prime Ali danced around the ring with his hands by his waist, jab and moved jab and moved, when his opponent came into range he would throw a flurry of shots and either move out the way using his footwork or lean of out of the way of incoming shots using lateral movement. Here is where Tyson would capitalise, Ali's tendency to lean backwards with his hands down is a recipe for disaster against a prime Tyson. Tysons whole game is executed through midrange fighting eventually getting on the inside to unleash his famous body head combos taught by cus damato. Ali almost never raised his right hand, it was always down by his waist, before or after throwing shots. Tyson would certainly capitalise on this with his infamous left hook. When it comes to the left hook Tyson is notoriously known for it. Which I believe is only due to his excellent jab. His jab slip to the left, followed by either a left hook to the body or left hook to the head would be catching Ali all night. The young prime Ali would have trouble keeping a prime Tyson off of him, Tyson would pressure Ali into fighting very defensively, and would force him to jab much much less due to being countered. And when Ali stops jabbing, he stops fighting. Prime Tyson vs a prime Ali, in my opinion only goes one way which is a Tyson victory, in a good competitive fight. Prime Tyson vs post ban Ali however is a whole different story. I believe the increased punch resistance, and wits of the post ban Ali gives a prime Tyson all he can handle. Ali's superior conditioning would enable him to bring the fight to Tyson for the whole fight giving Tyson something to think about every second of every round. The older smarter Ali would score punches on an incoming Tyson then proceed to tie him up rather than move out the way like the younger version of himself. Here is where Tyson is in trouble. When in the clinch Tyson often took a rest and hardly made much effort to get out of them. I can see the older Ali outsmart a prime Tyson by scoring one twos and perhaps his uppercut (which I believe is the wrong idea as he was open to a counter left hook when he threw his uppercut) on an incoming Tyson then proceeding to tie him up similar to what he did with Frazier. Ali's increase in size and strength is key to this fight as he will be able to control Tyson in the clinch. Tyson had trouble with guys who caught him then tied him up almost instantly. Although I believe post ban Ali gives Tyson all he can handle I still believe he loses a much much closer fight opposed to a prime Ali would give him. This is again becuase of Ali's flaws defensively, Ali's physical abilities decreased post ban yet he still tended to fight in the flashy hands down manner he is known for, this is where Tyson capitalises, you see Frazier evading shots from Ali using his very methodical 'up down' head movement. Tyson was light years above when it comes to lateral movement, he would catch Ali moving backwards with his hands down, make him miss and make him pay. Tyson will take many shots to the arms and head on his way inside but I believe he would be able to land the more cleaner and effective shots leading to a points victory. All in all I believe Ali's defence just wouldn't be able to withstand a prime Tyson. prime Ali is too ****y for his own good against prime Tyson and is one hundred percent capable of being stopped. Post ban Ali ties Tyson up and makes it a much dirtier closer fight. Although I believe Tyson scores points coming out of clinches and ultimately lands cleaner and harder shots on the older Ali. Both guys have the characteristics to trouble one another, imo it all comes down to Ali's lack of defence and this is where Ali will pay greatly.

 

I fully understand your point and it is a fair point, however you fail to mention that these guys fought a complete different fight as opposed how Ali would fight. These guys fought to survive and rarely opened up, when you open up against Tyson that is when you are in danger. Ali would come to win and throw furiously at Tyson, these guys came for the pay check and the reputation of the ones who SURVIVED Tyson. When it comes to fighting you can get by just fine in survival mode, it when you start to take risks and go for glory you put yourself in danger.

 

You're forgetting one thing, pre-exile Ali was just as big as strong as he was in the 70's and way faster and elusive of foot.