Could a prime Mike Tyson actually dominate Ali?

he is also forgetting paragraphs

 

Yes Jones and Hopkins would beat Hagler and GGG would beat them all.

Likewise Whitaker would beat Duran and Linares would whup them both.

Spinks would be beaten by Tarver and Jones and all three by Kovalev. Cotto would beat Hearns and SRL etc.

 

Hmm you are right he was just as big pre and post ban, however he wasn't just as strong. Pre ban he would come in at around 210lbs and post ban he would come in around 215lbs. You probably think it's an insignificant difference, which on paper it is. However when you take into consideration pre exile Ali would have had to lift weights to get to that chiselled 210, where as post exile Ali did a lot of cardio to get to that 215lbs. As you grow older you start to fit into your frame and putting on weight becomes much easier.

 

I apologise, was in a hurry typing that yesterday on the way to the gym, I always end up waffling and forget about things like grammar

 

On the contrary.

Ali would need to do all the talking, clowning, and ridiculing required to get under the mentally weak Tyson's skin. Liston also had anger and menace in spades, and it did him no good whatsoever, and it wouldn't do Tyson any good either.

As for the Ali / Frazier FOTC. Ali had fought less then 20 rounds in the previous 4 years. We all saw what happened in the subsequent rematches.

Furthermore there is one vast difference between Tyson and Joe. Little Mikey just didn't like getting hit, he would cover up, regroup and come again. Frazier on the other hand just kept throwing his own punches when he was getting hit, as can be evidenced in all the Ali fights, and even his decimation at the hands of Foreman.

Pre exile Ali stops Tyson by mental breakdown inside 10 rounds. Post exile takes a couple of rounds longer.

 

:happy:happy:happy:happy:happy.

 

There's a lot of Tom Foolery going on in this thread. To answer the question, No he doesn't dominated Tyson, in fact, he gets boxing lesson.

 

Tyson has a punchers, combination chance against any fighter in history. You make one leaky mistake and he will finish you off.

But I think at their absolute bests, ali will dominate Tyson and outbox him.

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Not much right here. Ali never lifted weights pre-exile and 212 lbs was considered his best weight. The same weight he had for the rematches with Norton and Frazier and just a couple of pounds below his weight for Foreman.

For Chuvalo in 1966 Ali was actually 214,5 lbs. He came in to training camp at 225 lbs, so he cut 10 lbs in training instead of putting on weight by lifting.

You grow stronger with age because you increase in mass. If you don't increase in mass your strength doesn't increase, as far as I know.

In Ali's case, his muscles wasn't trained for 3,5 years. He went from being in the gym every day to traveling around the country speaking for college students. Of course he lost strength during this period. If he ever fully regained that I don't know. Would a 25-year old elite weight-lifter who lectured instead of trained for 3,5 years ever lift as much again while at the same weight, let alone lift more? Doubtful to say the least.

We know Ali terminally lost some speed and explosiveness to the lay-off, but he would gain strength without gaining in mass? Nah.

And if you persist in believing this contrary to sound reason, how much difference would it make? At 22 and 210 lbs he was strong enough to control Liston in the clinches, why wouldn't he be at 25 and 212 lbs against Tyson?

Was the 225 lbs Ali in Manilla stronger than the 212 lbs Ali for Terrell? Yeah, those extra 13 lbs (not all of it muscle mind you) probably made him somewhat stronger, but not enough to nearly off-set the loss of stamina, speed, mobility, reflexes and timing he had suffered.

And why this obsession with Ali's strength? Post-prison Tyson was stronger than pre-prison. He lifted weights and were bigger, but did that help him?

If you think strength is that important, how do you think the Tyson against Lewis would fare against pre-exile Ali? Would that version of Tyson have a better chance than the one that KO'd Spinks because he was older, bigger and stronger?

 

It's not as though Tyson was a physical monster at his peak, he was man handled in clinches throughout his career. Ali would have owned him in the clinches.

 

I don't think strength is that important however I believe it plays a role in the style Ali adopted post exile. If you read my initial post you would realise I was more 'obsessed' with styles rather than strength.

 

People mistake that Tyson won his fights due to strength. Strength was not his thing. If was so many other attributes of combination of attributes.

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When was Tyson ever thrown around the ring or pushed back in his peak? That has to do with power. Even Bruno and Ruddock among others couldn't back Tyson up. Again that comes down to strength.

Pre prison Tyson was never discouraged by getting hit nor by being out strengthened. Against Douglas he was kept away with lateral movement, speed and a long jab and right hand leads. He'd tie him up rinse and repeat.

Holyfield fought him different but he essentially blocked, wrestled, used lateral movement and timed him coming in. Everything Tyson threw was thwarted, blocked or simply hit air. Tyson occasionally landed some pretty telling blows but not enough to neutralize Holyfield's game plan. He was outworked, and out maneuvered but not outgunned.

Both Douglas and Holyfield used technical savvy to get the job done. And against both men Tyson couldn't hit them, not because of strength but because of boxing skill. Neither guy bullied Tyson. You just don't beat him that way.

 

Lewis pushed Tyson around.

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Not really, but you're using that Tyson as an example?