Could a prime Mike Tyson actually dominate Ali?

Why would they dry out?

EDIT: Actually Ken Norton is with you. At about 6.00 he says that Ali should be about 220 and Joe about 212 after another couple of days work out and drying out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNEfN2R4oRc

I remember Frazier saying a similar thing in Zaire. That Ali looked a couple of pounds lighter than the 216.5 he weighed in at.

Sounds strange to me that you lose weight the last days before a fight (if you don't have to make weight), but I won't second guess these guys.

 

And Tyson never got to meet the Real Deal Holyfield.

 

In general, fighters are not that generous to the opponents they lost to. Leonard's best opponent was Benitez, Toney's was McCallum and Foreman's was, wait for it ... Ron Lyle.

In Tyson's case it can be that he felt he was too past it when he met Lewis to really have that fights as a yard stick. That Holy rates someone he clearly beat higher than someone who clearly beat him... It does sound a bit suspect even considering he was somewhat more past it when he met Lewis.

 

To answer the thread question there is no one easy answer.

On the hand, Tyson's style was very much evolved to counter styles similar to Ali's. Just like Ali's style was very much an answer to the more lineal come forward style of Joe Louis. Mike was great at coming forward, cutting off the ring and opening up at the right moment. This could spell trouble indeed for Ali's tendency to drop his hands.

On the other hand, Ali in his prime was so fast and gifted that he defied conventional boxing logic. It was one thing to trap the faded Ali of the 70's and catch him with sharp hooks like Frazier did and another to do it against the lightening fast version of the 60's. Watch how expertly Liston chases Patterson down in their rematch and then how clueless he looked in his very next fight against a still developing Ali.

I think both cases have strong merit, so in the end it's more or less a toss-up for me.

 

Probably the most sensible way to address the issue.

 

Great post! :thumbsup, To be fair, however The Liston who fought Ali clearly wasn't the same man who had dismantled Patterson two years earlier, who himself, wasn't quite as good as the fighter who bombed out Cleveland Williams 2X.

 

Lewis is someone who was beautifully managed, he knew exactly when to face an opponent at what time. His main rivals were completely past it when he did face them, hence he doesn't really deserve credit for something that was a foregone conclusion at the time. Also his cowardly excuses to avoid a Vitali rematch is another downer on him. Also I mean come on which all time great heavy weight gets starched twice like an over protected girl by just one big shot to the face.

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

 

I completely understand this rationale but I was thinking more upon the lines of Lennox being a spoiled, conceited brat. Winning the title in court, twice, would rub your fellow brethren the wrong way. Like a fellow poster posted a while ago, "Lennox Lewis isn't the white knight his followers think he is!"

That doesn't mean I don't rate Lennox. The older I get the higher he climbs on a head to head basis. He resides around the #5-8 position in my Baker's Dozen accomplishment rankings. I just feel there's a lot of stuff he and his team did behind closed doors that were never addressed to the public. Only those in the know, know. Hence why he gets the cold shoulder, appropriately or not.

 

Everyone can pick on a fighter's low points but as far as I'm concerned Lennox avenged those losses in devastating fashion and solidified his legacy. Those losses weren't erased but rather avenged with revenge. You can't do much better than Lennox did in the 90's since he and Holyfield were the measuring stick for that decade. Holyfield has the better wins but Lennox has the more dominating reign at top. Then again Lennox wasn't defending the undisputed championship until Y2K.

The Vitali rematch should've happened. In my opinion Lennox was on his way to finishing him off at Staples but Vitali deserved a rematch. Would've been nice to see.

 

He dismantled Patterson the second time seven months before he met Ali/Clay.

And actually I think Sonny was more impressive in the rematch against Floyd. Patterson didn't try and slug it out like he for some reason did in the first fight, but instead tried to box him but Liston just hunted him down like it was nothing.

How many HWs ever would have done this better? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckimu7s1yiE

 

Agreed. Liston did an excellent job cutting the ring and finding Patterson. Though Patterson Did a little better this time around. I may be in the minority, but I think Patterson was physically capable to give Liston a much better fight. How about you?

 

Comparing Mike Tyson to Ali is like comparing. Dog**** to Icecream.

 

What a load of rot.

 

Well, that might certainly be so, since lesser fighters like Folley and Machen and others gave a better account of themselves against Liston. You could say pretty much the same for Spinks against Tyson, I guess.

But that's just speculation. What we do know is that Floyd tried two times with two different approaches but was just as easily done away with both times and that Sonny looked great doing away with him (watch the combo he ends Patterson with in the rematch, for example).

 

His sparring partner said "He never did the things he trained all those months to do. It wasn't that he couldn't do them. He did them, beautifully just a few days before the fight."

I personally think it he was paralyzed by fear. As Mike Tyson once said, "Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth."

I think he would've given Liston a better fight. I don't see him winning though.