Could A Prime Wlad Outbox A Prime Ali

It's Ovah,

I agree with you, but again, look at the Haye fight.

As above.

He was younger, sharper and motivated going into the Haye fight, yet he was still extremely cautious.

He also looked much better against Joshua, 18 months after he fought Fury.

If you swapped Haye for Fury in 2011, I really don't see what would have changed.

 

There's no logic to that opinion.

The version of Wlad who fought Joshua was 18 months older and had been inactive.

How was he a better fighter?

He wasn't.

It was the difference in his opponent.

Why does a prime Wlad knock out Fury?

Why didn't he try and knock out Haye?

 

You saw how Wlad went about Joshua, right? He ad libed and let the hands go. A prime Wlad destroys Fury. Fury is a flash in the pan. Why do you think he is fighting fringe cruisers and faded bums ranked 138 on boxrec? Vitali was out four years and came back at 37 against the then champ. Fury is treading water because he knows his limitations.

 

Every fighter ages differently depending on their circumstances.

Ali shouldn't have been licensed to fight those last year's of his career.

If you'd read my post, I didn't say that age doesn't slow a fighter down. Wlad wasn't immune to ageing. What I'm saying, is that it's my opinion that Wlad's loss to Tyson Fury, was more of a psychological factor than a physical one. We saw against Joshua that he was still sharp.

On The Money has just said that in his opinion, the version of Wlad who fought Joshua would have beaten the version who lost to Tyson. Well how does that work? He'd slowed down and couldn't pull the trigger against Tyson, but he could 18 months later against Joshua? He'd have knocked Joshua out with different tactics. The performance against Tyson was nothing to do with an eroding skill set. It was due to the stylistical challenge that Tyson presented him with, along with his supreme confidence.

In my honest opinion, there's nothing to suggest that a prime version of Wlad would have knocked out Tyson. Again, you saw against Joshua that he had plenty left in the tank. The difference was, Wlad couldn't land those same shots on Tyson, because Tyson kept feinting him and making him hesitant. So why would you think that the version who fought the likes of Haye would have fought him any differently?

 

Prime Fury with an neutral ref stops Wlad in 7 round. Fury had everything going against him in Germany , was also pre-prime and had zero championship experience , yet still won comfortably. Fury clowns any version of Wlad.
The 12 rounds the fought prove that beyond all dispute.

 

He beat a 40 year old man by decision that had looked out of sorts in his previous fight vs a fringe contender. Who are you trying to kid? Prime Wlad with Steward in his corner wrecks Fury. Why do you think Fury ran away from the rematch? Cheating mofo that he is.

 

Right. So he let his hands go in his early 40's, after 18 months of inactivity, yet he was unable to do so in Dusseldorf?

You're kidding yourself.

It's illogical.

A fighter doesn't have an eroding set of skills at 39, then suddenly become sharper 18 months later after not fighting.

The difference was the OPPONENT.

Why would a prime version of Wlad have destroyed Fury?

A prime version of Wlad, with Manny in his corner, was a safety first fighter.

What makes you think a prime version would have let his hands fly against Fury?

Why didn't he let his hands fly against Haye?

It wouldn't have mattered if Wlad had fought Tyson earlier. Tyson would still have trashed talked him at the pressers. He'd still have intimidated him with his size and his supreme confidence. He'd still have switched during the fight and feinted him. He'd still have goaded him. He'd still have been an opponent like no other he'd ever fought previously. And on top of all of that, Manny would also have known how unpredictable and dangerous Tyson would have been for Wlad.

Regarding Tyson's recent opponent, we know why that fight was signed. Yes, Vitali was out for longer, and he came back against a much better opponent than who Tyson fought. And Vitali deserves huge respect for that. But Vitali hadn't battled alcohol, drugs and depression, and he didn't need to lose over 50 pounds of weight.

 

He beat Haye fair and square with the style that saw him through most of his 29 championship fights (the most in hw history). I don't have to defend WK against a lucky bum like Fury. Fury was just a Leon Spinks II and he knew it, hence he ran away from a rematch and concocted all sorts of excuses, not to mention he was caught for steroids. Fury was frankly embarrassing last month vs that fringe cruiser. 70s Leon Spinks would probably knock Fury out. A lucky bum.

 

Wlad had been fighting that way since he was 34. He couldn't be beat using the old mans conservative jab n grab style.
The Fury Wlad beat was as good as any Wlad that ever stepped into the ring. Fact. His performance against Joshua toe year later proves that beyond all dispute.
Fury had the wrong style for Wlad . He was all wrong for him in every way. Switch hitting , movement , angles , higher ring IQ, inside game , >>> straight forward jab n grab with no plan B all day long.

 

Again, please explain to me how he let his hands go and looked great against Joshua, 18 months AFTER he couldn't let his hands go against Tyson?

Again, why does a prime version of Wlad wreck Fury?

What is that opinion based on?

There is zero evidence to support a theory that Wlad would have wrecked Tyson in his prime.

 

Okay. We're done.

If you seriously believe that Tyson is/was just a lucky bum, then you're just wasting my time.

It's pointless to continue.

 

I'm handing over the reigns to you pal.

Apparently, Wlad was shot against Tyson, yet he was suddenly revitalised against Joshua after 18 months of inactivity.

One of the funniest things I've read on here, is:

"The Wlad of the Joshua fight would have knocked Fury out"

Ha!


I forgot to ask you, what did you think of the Pele comment?

Apparently, he'd only be an average striker today.

 

Haye has actually proven to have better KO punching abilities than Fury. That's just a fact! Therefore, I'm not surprised at Wlad being cautious as he was in that fight.

Fury posed as much of a knockout threat to Wladimir Klitschko as Tony Thompson did. Wladimir Klitschko had no problems disrespecting Thompson's punches and then stopping him. Wladimir Klitschko could've and would've done the same thing to Fury if the fight happened whilst Wlad was younger. Age certainly played a factor in that fight.

The biological age for when athletes decline remains the same for all humans. Otherwise, how do you explain almost no athletes winning gold medals in the Olympics after the age of 35 in athletic sports? Or how about no sprinter being the fastest in the world at age 39? Or no marathon runner being the best in the world at age 39? Or every other past 'heavyweight' champion retiring or losing to far inferior opponents than Tyson Fury by age 39?

Why should we make a special exception or a special pleading fallacy, only when it comes to Wladimir Klitschko but not any other athlete / heavyweight boxer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading

Against Joshua, he was just as much past it as he was against Fury. Which is why the timing on his left hook was shot and he therefore couldn't finish Joshua off as he would've had they fought a few years earlier. The main difference was, he was better prepared for Joshua than for Fury because he didn't have the similar family problems when he fought Joshua. But the fact that he was past his best, much like any other athlete or any other past 'heavyweight' champion still remains unchanged.

I could also argue that Evander Holyfield's losses to Sultan Ibragimov, Chris Byrd and Larry Donald had nothing to do with eroding skill set or aging but stylistic challenges. I could also claim that Mike Tyson's losses to Danny Williams or Kevin McBride had nothing to do with eroding skill set or aging but stylistic challenges. I could also claim that Muhammad Ali's losses to Leon Spinks and Ken Norton had nothing to do with eroding skill set or aging but stylistic challenges. And my point would have just as much value as yours about Wladimir Klitschko.

Let's also not forget that Wladimir Klitschko lost multiple rounds and arguably lost according to some people against Bryant Jennings a few months before he fought Fury. This is the same Bryant Jennings who arguably lost his last fight to a total journeyman. And Wladimir Klitschko in his prime has already fought opponents that are stylistically similar and similar skill wise to Bryant Jennings. And he beat them far more convincingly. That struggle should really indicate to any objective viewer of boxing that Wladimir Klitschko by that point was past his best. And that Fury and Joshua afterwards, beat a post-prime Wladimir Klitshcko.

 

lol. Pele had exceptional individual talent and the game would be forged around him today like it is for Messi and Ranaldo. Same with Maradona. Both would be the most sought after players in the world if they were around today.

 

Why did you feel the need to type out all of the above?

It was completely unecessary.

Once again, I never said that age didn't play a factor.

I said: In my honest opinion, his performance against Tyson was more psychological than physical.

Yes, Fury doesn't possess huge power. Most of his knockouts have been accumulative TKO's. He was also dropped against a CW in Cunningham. And of course we all know that Wlad had huge power. Yet you're trying to tell me that Wlad couldn't let his hands go and put his foot on the gas pedal at any point in 36 mins, just due to his age and his preparation? No, I'm sorry. I don't buy it.

Yes, he was past his best against Joshua. Nobody has said otherwise.

Yes, he was sharper when he was younger in his 2007 prime. But again, it's not a given that a 2007 version of Wlad would have beaten Tyson Fury. Because nothing you say will change the fact that after his early knockout defeats, he became a naturally cautious fighter. So even a 2007 version of Wlad would still have been cautious against Tyson Fury. He would still have been perturbed by Tyson's confidence, skills and style.