Could A Prime Wlad Outbox A Prime Ali

He could never adapt to the other guys aggression, especially if he was getting pushed back. Check out his kos.....even the Sam Peter fight when he was knocked down 3 times he didn't change what he was doing. He never listened to Emmanuel Stewards instructions in the corner either.

 

Knocked down by a rabbit punches and still won that fight.
Wlad was able to stop mercer , lewis arguably lost to him. You know why , right?

 

Holyfield stated when in a clinch with Lewis you couldn't move he was the strongest he'd felt, Ali would not be man handling or coming out on top in a clinch with Lennox. If he had trouble with jabbers then he'll have trouble with Lewis, and if the right hand lands Alis knowing about it BIG...

 

Canelo has a similar skill set to Toney. Both can use upper body and head movement to avoid punches. But Canelo's a bigger puncher than Toney was. Canelo is very capable of beating Toney, not necesarily at his own game, but by timing him, and landing the cleaner punches, getting in body shots when Toney is moving his upper body anticipating head shots.

Also Toney would have a difficult time catching Canelo with his usual punches, because Canelo is more elusive than pretty much anyone's he's fought with the exception of Roy Jones, and we saw what happened there. Granted he was out of shape and had to drain himself unhealthily for that fight, but I could Canelo catching him with something and Toney becoming more aggressive to even a round up, and Canelo countering him and making it more emphatic. An in-shape young Middleweight Toney poses unique challenges, and he would not be easy for Canelo. I'd expect a chess match in the early rounds but for Canelo to find openings. Canelo has shown an ability to adapt to the style of his opponent. He can move, he can be aggressive and cut off the ring, he can adapt to the situation. Whereas Toney reaches points in fights where just tries to do the same thing over and over again.

For this reason I think GGG would be an easier fight for Toney than Canelo because Canelo will make him think, whereas GGG is straight up and down, comes at your and just tries to overwhelm you. I think Toney could handle that style easier because it won't challenge him mentally as much as a fight with Canelo.

 

Canelo is a bigger puncher, debatable but even if you are right how does it help Canelo against a guy who took punches from Rahman and Peter? No way Canelo can KO or likely even hurt Toney unless Toney kills himself to make weight.

Timing a fighter is Toney's game. He times your right hand and slips it with the shoulder roll and counters with his right. Everything you named Canelo would do to win, Toney does better. Look at Toney's body attack vs Barkley, you think Canelo can take that and not need the kiss of life to resuscitate him. How do you hit a guy to the body with the Philly shell, far from easy to do, lean to the right and the right elbow blocks the left hook while at the same time slipping the right hand, the low left arm/elbow blocks the right hand to the body every time too.

You really think Canelo can do what RJJ did or even close to it, I don't not a hope in hell. Canelo's right lead isn't half as quick as RJJ's. Canelo couldn't handle Mayweather's pull counter right, how does he do vs Toney's shoulder roll, counter right which was arguable as good if not better than Mayweather's counter right.

 

I'm not sure Canelo could KO or hurt Toney either, Toney's never been stopped, not even by RJJ. Though I think if it did happen, Canelo may be able to do it by landing a thudding body shot when Toney is trying to evade head shots. It is hard to land body shots on the Philly shell defense, but it can be penetrated. Canelo is a very skilled body puncher, he can identify openings and has the speed and reflexes to get punches to that area.

Against Mayweather, I was impressed with how often Canelo was able to land body shots on Mayweather's through the shoulder roll. The body shots Canelo landed on Floyd weren't particularly hard punches, because he had to place them rather than really load up on them, but the accuracy in landing the shot on target in between Floyd's gloves was there. Toney's arms to body area ratio isn't the same as Mayweather's arms to body area ratio. Mayweather can cover more of his body with his arms than Toney can and Canelo still was able to land a record number of body shots on Mayweather through the shoulder roll.

Canelo now is a much better and more dangerous fighter than what Canelo was 5 years ago when he fought Mayweather. Struggling with Mayweather 5 years ago doesn't really prove that 2018 Canelo would struggle with a Prime Toney. Mayweather is better in some areas than Toney, Mayweather found success vs Canelo by using the jab far more often than he usually does. Toney has a good jab but Mayweather has a great jab.

I don't think Canelo could do to James what RJJ did to him, but I do think Canelo would give Toney problems and has what it takes to beat Toney. I wouldn't count Prime MW Toney out, it would be a great stylistic matchup with 2017-2018 Canelo, but Canelo's adaptability and ability to place body shots in openings would be something that Toney isn't used to dealing with. I doubt Toney could KO or hurt Canelo, both fighters have solid chins and great defense.

 

I don't really get this focus you have on Canelo's body punching being able to swing the fight Canelo's way. When has Toney shown any weakness to the body?

If the body snatcher himself couldn't break Toney's body, I can't see how Canelo's body shots will, especially when he throws far fewer of them.

McCallum threw 849 shots vs Toney in their first fight, Canelo throws far less, how does Canelo's lower work rate help him win against a guy who better defensively, more accurate, better at cutting off the ring and when fit throws a hell of a lot more punches. Remember Toney is a 4 time member of the 400 club, where he's landed over 400 punches in 4 title fights.

 

Canelo does have elite skills but he doesn't have an elite engine or workrate. Look at how much head movement Toney used vs Nunn, Canelo doing what Toney did in round 1 alone would of had Canelo breathing heavily.

And even then Toney does a number of things better. His positioning is better, Canelo squares up more which is why GGG landed his jab almost at will. Toney also uses his lead hand to control his opponents jab, that along with his better positioning and head movement makes him much harder to hit with the jab than Canelo and makes Toney more effective at getting inside, where he likes to be.

Toney did lose to lesser guys but that was because he was notoriously lacking in self discipline and could show up either under prepared or half dead at the weight. Toney also beat guys that Canelo would lose to like McCallum.

 

Not elites, not the atg's were are talking about. They were taller than him but they were roughly his weight, these guys are taller again and naturally bigger again than the fighters he fought. There wasn't any big super heavys with skill sets like Wlad Lewis Vitali, when Tyson was about, 17 stone plus 6 ft 5" plus. Tyson wasn't imo really an inside fighter, more mid range, as soon as it was up close Tyson could be clinched/mauled quite easily

 

Yes Canelo is a great fighter and much more than just a weight bully as ive heard on here, having Oscar as his promoter has imo made him look stupid sometimes. I think he would've fought GGG at the drop of a hat when ever, but he looked a **** dropping the belt and stalling because of fishnets plan. James Toney imo is one of the most skilled fighters that's ever graced the ring, I think his laziness cost him from being classed as a SRR SRL Ali etc kinda fighter because he could match any of them for brilliance, the man oozed skills, a throw back.