Could Ali handle the size of a Lewis?

mcvey · Oct 13, 2012

hernanday said: ↑

I never said height was the only variable in fact I said
"1. Klitschko reach is also 80, so there goes his jab. Him and ali have equal reaches meaning the guy with the faster fist and feet win."
Two gun slingers with the same gun, whoever can pull quicker wins. whoever is able to fire it off first wins.

Even at that the shorter fighter is at an advantage because there is less of him to hit, no one practices throwing punches down. And everyone knows you chop a tree down by the root not the top, there'd be no reason for Ali to attempt to throw to his face when his body is wide open.

Even if we assume two equal fighters with only difference being height. Who has a bigger head, who has bigger body, who will not be able to properly defend their body because there arms are proportionally shorter, who will tired first because tall guys have endurance issues. Despite being cut as he is Klitschko will never be able to keep both his muscle and move well. Lennox is a freak in that regard.
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How many body shots did Ali throw in his entire career?

mcvey · Oct 13, 2012

IntentionalButt said: ↑

...five pages, and nobody bit? :yep
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Everyone is wise to Frankenstein now.

Nightcrawler · Oct 13, 2012

mcvey said: ↑

How many body shots did Ali throw in his entire career?
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all against ernie terrell. at least his accuracy was 100%

NoNeck · Oct 13, 2012

hernanday said: ↑

I never said height was the only variable in fact I said
"1. Klitschko reach is also 80, so there goes his jab. Him and ali have equal reaches meaning the guy with the faster fist and feet win."
Two gun slingers with the same gun, whoever can pull quicker wins. whoever is able to fire it off first wins.

Even at that the shorter fighter is at an advantage because there is less of him to hit, no one practices throwing punches down. And everyone knows you chop a tree down by the root not the top, there'd be no reason for Ali to attempt to throw to his face when his body is wide open.

Even if we assume two equal fighters with only difference being height. Who has a bigger head, who has bigger body, who will not be able to properly defend their body because there arms are proportionally shorter, who will tired first because tall guys have endurance issues. Despite being cut as he is Klitschko will never be able to keep both his muscle and move well. Lennox is a freak in that regard.
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It's not really jabbing down for Wlad, unless his shoulder joint is in the center of his face. But it is jabbing up for Ali. And Wlad's jab is way stronger than Ali's. Everyone else already covered the body shots part better than I could.

he grant · Oct 13, 2012

Ali would have defeated all of them ... he was 6' 3" himself, a natural heavyweight with a huge reach, terrific strength, an exceptional chin and was far faster than any of them .. Keep in mind that in reality , prime for prime, Lewis had 15 pounds on him and the Klits twenty five ... if we go wit their juiced weights Ali could carry another ten or 12 himself easily ... also keep in mind that Lewis could not seriously tag or hurt Holyfield over 24 rounds and Evander was no Ali ... I totally agree that size matters between great men but the stylistic match up is key and Ali decisions all of them ..

hernanday · Oct 13, 2012

mcvey said: ↑

How many body shots did Ali throw in his entire career?
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Alot, I;ve seen entire rounds where the only punch was a jab straight to the body, aka cleveland williams. Ever watch the liston fight, he tore into hime with tons of uppercuts on the inside all to the body

hernanday · Oct 13, 2012

NoNeck said: ↑

It's not really jabbing down for Wlad, unless his shoulder joint is in the center of his face. But it is jabbing up for Ali. And Wlad's jab is way stronger than Ali's. Everyone else already covered the body shots part better than I could.
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Someone is 3 inches shorter than you, u are going to be throwing down. I'm 6'0 my partner who holds the mits AND I SPAR WITH is 5'9 i HAVE to throw punches below where I'd throw them on a bag, a little down. The clear weakness is Vlad has to throw down not striaght. If I throw up, my arm is blocking my head, if I throw a little down, my head is a lil bit exposed. When a guy is dancing backwards from you, its going to be jabbing down. And if he wants to hit ali in the face or chin, its going to be throwing the jab not at 6'3 (the top of the head) but at 6'0 or 5'10 where the chin is.

What that Vlad will be taking lots of body shots, his hands are slower and ali can hit him all over the place because vlad has small arms for his height/

Vlad jab is not stronger, and even if it were it'd be irrelvent because ali's is faster, faster hits first.

Skittlez · Oct 13, 2012

he grant said: ↑

Ali would have defeated all of them ... he was 6' 3" himself, a natural heavyweight with a huge reach, terrific strength, an exceptional chin and was far faster than any of them .. Keep in mind that in reality , prime for prime, Lewis had 15 pounds on him and the Klits twenty five ... if we go wit their juiced weights Ali could carry another ten or 12 himself easily ... also keep in mind that Lewis could not seriously tag or hurt Holyfield over 24 rounds and Evander was no Ali ... I totally agree that size matters between great men but the stylistic match up is key and Ali decisions all of them ..
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Did you watch Lewis-Holyfield I? Or did you 'merge' the two fights.

The 2nd fight was basically a sparring session in which Lennox won without even breaking a sweat.

The first fight was the meaningful one and in the first fight Lennox dominated Holyfield.

I'm sorry that is a horrible example.

Lennox won 10 of 12 rounds in that first fight on most people's cards.

He had Holyfield hurt MULTIPLE times and especially in round 5. Lewis was just too cautious, he was rocking Holyfield the entire fight with jabs alone and ruthlessly dominated Evander.

NoNeck · Oct 14, 2012

hernanday said: ↑

Someone is 3 inches shorter than you, u are going to be throwing down. I'm 6'0 my partner who holds the mits AND I SPAR WITH is 5'9 i HAVE to throw punches below where I'd throw them on a bag, a little down. The clear weakness is Vlad has to throw down not striaght. If I throw up, my arm is blocking my head, if I throw a little down, my head is a lil bit exposed. When a guy is dancing backwards from you, its going to be jabbing down. And if he wants to hit ali in the face or chin, its going to be throwing the jab not at 6'3 (the top of the head) but at 6'0 or 5'10 where the chin is.

What that Vlad will be taking lots of body shots, his hands are slower and ali can hit him all over the place because vlad has small arms for his height/

Vlad jab is not stronger, and even if it were it'd be irrelvent because ali's is faster, faster hits first.
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I've always been more comfortable jabbing shorter people.

he grant · Oct 14, 2012

Skittlez said: ↑

Did you watch Lewis-Holyfield I? Or did you 'merge' the two fights.

The 2nd fight was basically a sparring session in which Lennox won without even breaking a sweat.

The first fight was the meaningful one and in the first fight Lennox dominated Holyfield.

I'm sorry that is a horrible example.

Lennox won 10 of 12 rounds in that first fight on most people's cards.

He had Holyfield hurt MULTIPLE times and especially in round 5. Lewis was just too cautious, he was rocking Holyfield the entire fight with jabs alone and ruthlessly dominated Evander.
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Lewis never dominated Holyfield who was already 37 and clearly on the downward slope .. no doubt he deserved the decision but my point is that Lennox's most impressive performances were his KO's of big, slowish guys like Ruddock, Golata, Grant ... against a man with a solid chin and movement like Holyfield he was not able to tee off with enough effect to dominate or stop him ... a prime Ali, with exceptionl strength, speed, reach , movement and chin would simple keep him off balance and out point him ...

Skittlez · Oct 14, 2012

he grant said: ↑

Lewis never dominated Holyfield who was already 37 and clearly on the downward slope .. no doubt he deserved the decision but my point is that Lennox's most impressive performances were his KO's of big, slowish guys like Ruddock, Golata, Grant ... against a man with a solid chin and movement like Holyfield he was not able to tee off with enough effect to dominate or stop him ... a prime Ali, with exceptionl strength, speed, reach , movement and chin would simple keep him off balance and out point him ...
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I agree with your post. Great insight. I do feel you give Lennox too little credit by saying 'he deserved the decision' though. He clearly won at least 9 of 12 rounds. That's not 'deserving' that's a out right robbery.

But you are right about Prime Ali's speed,reach,chin,reflexes etc.

HOUDINI · Oct 15, 2012

Does anyone see that either brother can't fight? Ali would completely destroy them both. They are too slow to hit prime Ali solidly and Ali was too quick and accurate to miss. Honestly where are you people coming from?

Stevie G · Oct 16, 2012

Nightcrawler said: ↑

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all against ernie terrell. at least his accuracy was 100%
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It's a shame that Muhammad did n't use bodyshots more often. He seemed pretty useful with them.

KuRuPT · Oct 16, 2012

Short answer is no.. as I would pick Lewis to beat Ali... but long answer is yes he could as he could be competitive and make a fight of it.

dyna · Oct 16, 2012

hernanday said: ↑

I never said height was the only variable in fact I said
"1. Klitschko reach is also 80, so there goes his jab. Him and ali have equal reaches meaning the guy with the faster fist and feet win."
Two gun slingers with the same gun, whoever can pull quicker wins. whoever is able to fire it off first wins.

Even at that the shorter fighter is at an advantage because there is less of him to hit, no one practices throwing punches down. And everyone knows you chop a tree down by the root not the top, there'd be no reason for Ali to attempt to throw to his face when his body is wide open.

Even if we assume two equal fighters with only difference being height. Who has a bigger head, who has bigger body, who will not be able to properly defend their body because there arms are proportionally shorter, who will tired first because tall guys have endurance issues. Despite being cut as he is Klitschko will never be able to keep both his muscle and move well. Lennox is a freak in that regard.
Click to expand...

Size is more than just lenght, that's why we have weight divisions.
If there were heightdivisions we would have guys like Mike Tyson and David Tua killing welterweights.

Oscar De La Hoya is taller, more reach, more skilled and faster than David Tua. We all know he stands totally 0 chance against Tua in a 12 rounder.

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