Could Ali have beaten Frazier in 1971 with one more tune-up fight?

On March 8, 1971...the night of the FOTC...Ali wasn't going to win that night...Frazier was on a mission...he would have had to kill Joe that night in order to beat him...Joe was not going to lose!!! Frazier was NEVER the same after that night. He left everything in the ring at MSG...

 

Either further tune ups or simply more time to prep himself for the Frazier fight.

Ray Leonard had full on matches in camp to prepare himself for Hagler - I guess Ali could’ve taken it to the next level and done same - if he had sufficient time.

Personally, I see Ali tiring within himself (not due to what Frazier was putting to him) as early as round 4.

Until then, Ali was giving Joe a one way beating - but then Ali slowed which allowed Joe to really come roaring in. Thereafter, Ali’s offensive were that much more sporadic - but still very effective when he launched.

I should add that I probably scored the FOTC a lot closer than most people anyway.

 

I think a couple of more matches under his belt and his winning fight chances go up another 25%.

 

He shouldn't have angered Frazier and he should have grappled a bit more and gone to the ropes by choice and not out of necessity.

 

It’s a firm no from me. Ali’s major problem in the fight was that he attempted to actually fight Frazier - & I’m not entirely convinced even the ‘67 Ali could’ve done that & won (I doubt Ali himself would be even entirely sure).

Only by excessively holding (& getting away with it) did Ali win their rematches, something he needed to fight Frazier first to learn.

 

Not necessarily close, but I think the later ‘60s version of Ali’s approach to Chuvalo might be the closest approximation to how he would’ve fought Frazier.

Part of that approach, as I see it, would be coming in a bit heavier - Ali was 214 1/2 lb for Chuvalo in ‘66, a career high during Ali’s first incarnation I believe - and barely below his weight for The FOTC in ‘71.

Against Chuvalo, a slight sacrifice in mobility was apparent (due to weight and by choice) but all else was in place but with the additional bonus of Ali sitting down on his punches that much more, which, combined with the extra weight, resulted in Muhammad punching that much harder.

Many suggest that Ali came back bigger and stronger post exile but the 66 version was plenty strong and extremely durable.

Ali took the brutal body attacks from Chuvalo - and even invited them on occasion.

While Ali was hitting very hard it was still the ever resilient Chuvalo who was taking the punches - but even George appeared a bit hurt and set back by several of Ali’s lighting fast and powerful salvos.

For mine, stamina (or lack thereof) was the key difference for 71 Ali vs 60s Ali. In 71, Ali gave Joe a good beating for the first 4 rounds - Ali tiring thereafter - a fatiguing that, imo, was unrelated to what Joe had put to him in the fight at that early point.

Imo, a far more energised ‘60s Ali continues the domination well beyond the 4 round mark and, as the fight rolls on, Joe progressively becomes that much more damaged and impaired than he was in the 71 fight.

 

How sad we’ll never know. I had Ali sweeping the first five rounds of their actual fight - though I haven’t scored it in over a decade.

 

Maybe if he'd had the tune-up and had treated Frazier with respect. Without changing the way he treated Frazier? No way. Frazier was NOT being beaten that night.

I implore everyone with a rusty memory of the fight to go and re-watch it. It wasn't actually that close. Frazier beat the hell out of Ali for most of the fight.

 

I may just take you up on that. Many moons ago I had it dead even going into the final round, though of course all momentum was with Frazier.

 

Exactly that.

 

My pops and I recently re-watched it, both of us scored it. Neither of us had it close. Both thought the official score was pretty favorable to Ali. And that knockdown... jesus. That may have been the greatest left hook ever thrown in anger.

 

Grappling, framing, and clinching are part of boxing If Lennox Lewis didn't employ those techniques in the early rounds and let Mike Tyson bomb away from the mid range he would have lost their fight.

 

It may have helped him but I'm a firm believer at that point Ali wasn't beating Frazier

 

He was courageous, witty, lavishly talented and everything else. I just wish he hadn't popularized trash talk. Good sportsmanship used to be a virtue.

 

Ali needed more than one fight to work out an ATG like Frazier.

Although, if Ali didn't get suspended - I would have backed the first fight to end like the second fight.