Could any 20-year old fighter beat the Tyson who beat Berbick?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, Jul 1, 2008.


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  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I would say that the view on Tyson is quite balanced nowadays. Most recognize that he was really great in his prime, and there aren't too many left who insists that "Mega Tyson" was unbeatable either (with notable exceptions). I think the discussion is very balanced around here overall, even if it is a bit less so on some subjects IMO.
     
    Bokaj, Jul 2, 2008
    Bokaj, Jul 2, 2008
    #16
  2. prime

    prime BOX! Writing Champion Full Member

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    True.

    My personal experience was Tyson's simply looking better on film than hallowed past greats (Tyson over Spinks impressing me more than Louis over Schmeling), discovering this site, reading quite a few dismissive, high-and-mighty opinions on Mike, lowering my opinion of him, feeling like something was amiss suddenly picking 15 guys over Tyson, going back to the film, confirming my prior observations and forever consolidating my respect for this awesome fighter.
     
    prime, Jul 2, 2008
    prime, Jul 2, 2008
    #17
  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's good that you have conviction in your opinions. Many guys here are so knowledgable and argue so well that sometimes you can get to doubt things you really think are self-evident.

    Personally, I have been somewhat guilty of dismissing Tyson in the past, mainly because I was so fed up with those who hyped him. I think he showed true greatness at times (Berbick, Spinks for example), but I also think he showed weaknesses against guys like Douglas and Holyfield that just can't be discarded with "that wasn't the real Tyson". I do agree, however, that Tyson wasn't at his best in those fights. Against Holyfield he was definitely some way past his prime, but so was Holyfield.

    Awesome as he looked in finishing P. Thomas I couldn't help but wonder how the fight would have looked if Thomas had moved more behind that excellent jab and straight right. And it's hard not to feel that the fight against Douglas gave at least some hint to the answer of that question.

    But still, I have Tyson very high in a h2h sense. The only one I would pick quite comfortably over him is Ali, and maybe Foreman.
     
    Bokaj, Jul 2, 2008
    Bokaj, Jul 2, 2008
    #18
  4. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    I don't think there's ever been a heavyweight of such a young age as great as Tyson was circa 86/87.
     
    Holmes' Jab, Jul 3, 2008
    Holmes' Jab, Jul 3, 2008
    #19
  5. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Whilst Berbick was the better opponent I've thought for a long time that the most brutal, dominating and sharp Tyson ever looked was perhaps during the Biggs fight. He could've easily forced the stoppage at virtually anytime long before the 7th
     
    Holmes' Jab, Jul 3, 2008
    Holmes' Jab, Jul 3, 2008
    #20
  6. DamonD

    DamonD Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I've said before that the Biggs fight is actually one of my favourite Tyson performances because (even if it's just bourne out of wanting to torture Biggs) the more methodical and precise pace Tyson sets in that fight really gave him a chance to show off more than just the bulldozer approach.
     
    DamonD, Jul 3, 2008
    DamonD, Jul 3, 2008
    #21
  7. radianttwilight

    radianttwilight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Wanna know something special?

    Spinks 212 for his fight with Tyson.

    Foreman was 217 for his title-winning performance against Frazier in 1973.

    Tyson was 218lbs for the Spinks fight...

    If Michael Spinks wasn't a credible opponent because he was "smaller" than Tyson, then maybe prime Foreman wouldn't be a credible opponent either? Since weight = ability, after all.
     
    radianttwilight, Jul 30, 2008
    radianttwilight, Jul 30, 2008
    #22
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Let's remember Berbick was a fairly limited and well... crappy heavyweight. And that era was horrible.
     
    Seamus, Jul 30, 2008
    Seamus, Jul 30, 2008
    #23
  9. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Both is wrong, watch Clay-Williams or Louis-Schmeling. Those are nearer on what you suggest.
    Also, Tyson maybe the youngest beltholder ever but when he became champ he was older than Patterson was when he became champ.
     
    Loewe, Jul 30, 2008
    Loewe, Jul 30, 2008
    #24
  10. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    I don't think that Ali would show the same clowning and carelessness against Tyson. If he did he'd be in trouble, otherwise he'd win a closely contested UD.
     
    Holmes' Jab, Jul 31, 2008
    Holmes' Jab, Jul 31, 2008
    #25
  11. Ezzard

    Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    How many thread topics can be devised to try and manipulate a situation where Tyson is the greatest ever fighter?
     
    Ezzard, Jul 31, 2008
    Ezzard, Jul 31, 2008
    #26
  12. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Just wait and watch and you´ll see them all. :yep
     
    Loewe, Jul 31, 2008
    Loewe, Jul 31, 2008
    #27
  13. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Tyson certainly ain't the greatest ever, but a peak period version would make for a very tough assignment for virtually any great. You're kidding youself if you think otherwise IMO. I think he'd beat some of 'em.
     
    Holmes' Jab, Jul 31, 2008
    Holmes' Jab, Jul 31, 2008
    #28
  14. Ezzard

    Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Agreed. That's how I see it. But he's not one of the elite top drawer HWs no matter how you try to splice it.
     
    Ezzard, Jul 31, 2008
    Ezzard, Jul 31, 2008
    #29
  15. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    If you count the 'top drawer heavyweights' to be 'top 10' then he's there in my view. I've him at #8 infact and think that's fair. Obviously he's a bit below the likes of Holmes, Lewis, Liston even further behind the consensus 'top 2'.
     
    Holmes' Jab, Jul 31, 2008
    Holmes' Jab, Jul 31, 2008
    #30
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