Could anybody beat prime Ali? If not, who comes the closest.

Any boxer can be beaten, it's silly to say otherwise. I'd give the best chance to Louis, Tyson and Lewis, and of course Frazier already did it.

 

I've always fancied Holmes at his best to give Ali lots of problems. Frazier of course, since he actually did and for me that would not change in the 60's. Norton too.

But who knows? Maybe a Page or Spoon or Thomas at their best could have given him problems too. Ali was a great fighter of course, but he had his flaws and problems with certain styles.
Lennox...yeah, I think he could give Ali problems. Tyson? He'd be very dangerous and Ali would have to be on his A game.

What about the Klits? Wladimir of the Byrd fight and Vitali of the Johnson/Sanders fight.
I'm not sure Vitali is quick enough but his overall dimensions and style may be problematic.
Wlad with his safety-first, conservative style could make Ali look bad as well.

I'm not feeling Joe Louis really...too methodical and had trouble with smaller, lighter speedsters. I think Ali takes that one.

 

I have Ali as the nr 1 HW of all time, but I think he'd struggle with several of the best HWs of the last decades. Tyson would certainly be a formidable opponent, and Holmes would be very difficult, but especially super heavies such as Bowe, Lewis and the Klits. Can't see him get past Wlad for one thing.

Not a knock on Ali. He was an evolutionary step ahead of the rest at his peak, but has been left behind by the further progress made.

 

Yes,the pressure types such as Frazier and Tyson would give the prime Muhammad the most problem. Also a fellow 'boxer' such as Holmes

 

This.

Frazier and Norton would always have given him problems. Now it might be the case that he was unlucky to share an era with Frazier, but I don’t think that Norton was a similar standout. Somewhere in another era, there is another Norton type fighter who would simply have had his number. The problem is that I don’t have the slightest idea who it is.

 

I agree that most of the above COULD give Ali problems. Just as any fighter ever has many that MIGHT beat him.

But just having physical assets are not enough to WIN, which was the question, prime to prime. He also dought guys somewhat bigger like Terrell, his ex training partner, stronger guys like Liston & Foreman...

"Luckily for him" he retired in '81?!
He had been pro since soon after Rome in '60, was older & had Parkinson's for several years! And only Frazier of those you cited beat him, 7 it was not his absolute prime by any stretch, & none of those close matches were at his '66/'67 prime.

Frazier & Norton more so would not likely beat prime Ali. Too fast & continually mobile & active.

 

If you stay active long enough against the best, there's always someone who has your number I'd say. That's why I rate number of title defenses and number of wins against rated opponents so highly.

I do think Frazier and Norton gets more credit than usual for wins over someone who's clearly past prime. Norton said himself that he was his absolute peak for the Ali rubber, and even then I'd had him just edging it over an Ali that was almost 10 years past his own peak.

If 66-67 Ali comes in at his absolute best mentally and physically, Holmes is the only one pre Tyson that I'd give a decent chance of beating him. And I think Ali would do a number on Holmes with his lead rights. That's not a punch you want to be vulnerable to when facing Ali at his very, very best.

 

If we started matching him against contenders from other eras, we would get some totally unexpected results. It might turn out that somebody like Fred Fulton or Greg Page simply had his number.

You just don’t know.

Although Ali may be the greatest heavyweight of all time, he did not have the power of a Louis to fall back on if somebody had his number.

 

True.

That's why I put so much emphasis on taking on everybody that counts in your era. And Louis and Ali are the Olympians in this aspect.

 

Btw, good to still see you here Janitor. And you as well, Stevie.

Sadly, I don't see any new members contributing that much.

 

I'd give Louis a good shot. I'd pick prime Tyson to beat him, as well as Lennox Lewis, finally an on form Holyfield could also be a nightmare.