Could anybody beat prime Ali? If not, who comes the closest.

All these guys who think thar frazier and norton would have even a chance with a PEAK mobile ( during all the fight) ali, are poor ******ed frazier woould end with the face destroyed and norton exposed like the overrated bum that he was

 

Joe Louis beating ali lol

 

If he fought the list of opponents I posted, he would have won at most 1 and lost the rest, unless considering gift decisions as wins, or counting on Mirena to scam his way, in this case he might win 4 at most.
If he fought in a harder era (the 1970s were not even the 3rd hardest h2h era for HWs), he wuld have had a worse record than he had.
If he did not have a mafioso in his corner, another 1 as his promoter and the support of a pseudo terrorist organization, he would have had a worse record in his own era against the same opponents that he fought.
I did not choose them just due to their physical properties, but it reminds me that Michael Grant would have surely given him a harder fight than Joe Bugner or Ron Lyle (seemed like a fixed fight, Ron did not even try to seem like trying to hurt Ali, and the end came quite surprisingly with no real hurt on Ron)

 

Glad you feel this way.

 

One thing we can agree on is that what Ali's legs were able to do in 67 never came back after his return and his movement is what made his style unique among the heavy kings. Even in Frazier 2 when his being able to stay on his toes for 12 rounds returned it was slower and much less athletic as the peak physical days were passed. Ali's athletic ability in the William's and Folley bouts mirrored Dempsey's against Williard and Louis in Schmelling 2 and against Baer.

 

While Johnson I believe would have clearly picked off most of Ali's jabs and right hands I'm not sure he had enough offense to win the decision, but he is one of my maybes here. The Louis of the Baer and Schmelling 2 bouts had enough speed in his feet and hands to win against him I think.

 

Even Lyle didn't agree with you saying that while hurt he thought he could continue but the referee did what he had too. Lyle fought a well planned style knowing he couldn't win by slugging and he was ahead on the cards, what were you viewing? Bugner worked a style he planned against Ali and did respectfully, Grant would have been easily hit and stopped by Ali's right hands.

 

Lyle could not win while slugging? really? because a life threatenned (wait) dehydrated overheated possibly drugged George Foreman did not ?
Ali was capable of winning a slugging match with Lyle just like Foreman (barely) did, now I see why Lyle could not do it with Ali.
Lyle vs Ali was indeed a well planned show for the dumb public, a measured, careful poor man's boxing match until the surprising (but not in a hindsight) end.
Ali was not Frank Bruno, or Oliver McCall.
With no life threats, dehydration, loose ropes, extreme heat and GHB, Grant could at least do more than Foreman and Lyle did.

 

What exactly did he do in those years that he didn't box? Its not like he had to go jail or wasn't able to train or stay in shape if he wanted to. He was still in his 20s when he came back so wasn't exactly an old man so why is he considered physcially so much worse than when he was in 67?

 

A real Ali-Liston fight would be interesting to watch.

 

But both Folley and Williams were shot as ****, the perfect foils for a skittish water bug fighter. I think a 1970 Frazier would do just as well against a 67 Ali, having young legs, excellent footwork and cornering and the aggressive style to work behind them. AND I think that Ali was a more effective fighter in the 70's. His 60's style launched as thousand horrible heavyweights for decades to come more concerned with antics designed to impress soft-headed judges than engaging in meaningful offense.