Could anyone out slug young Foreman?

Reopen a can of whoop ass on you again? Nah, I’ve already done that.

 

I was wondering why this guy was so emotional. I heard nary a peep this entire thread from this guy, when the discussion was about Foreman (you know..... who the thread was about), but as soon as Leonard's name pops up, this guy comes crawling out of the woodwork within 20 minutes.

 

They were not real fights by any consideration that defines what a real fight is.

To wit:

If they were real fights, nobody would be wearing headgears and the gloves would be the same size.

If they were real fights, they would be sanctioned by a commission and be on the combatants’ records.

If they were real fights, we’d know who fought. When and where. Who judged. Who was the referee. Who was in the corners. What they weighed. We’d have witnesses and, given its SRL, video to study.

They were not real fights because there were no stakes. If Leonard had lost, would he have lost his title shot? Hell, whether you want to call them secret fights or hard sparring, we don’t even know if Leonard actually did win, what the scorecards were, how they ended.

They simply by any definition were not real fights. I don’t care who called them that — Mike Trainer or Mike Tyson — but a thing is what it is, it is not something else. These sessions do not meet the definition of what a real fight is.

You say I’m in the wrong thread but you bring up SRL vs Hagler in a George Foreman thread, lol. You don’t get to dictate what parameters can be used in discussing it here, so yes, I bring up how some on this very forum have said Ray Leonard cheated by sparring and training before the fight. Which is L-O-L.

You don’t want to discuss that, don’t drag SRL into a Foreman thread.

 

What makes it funny is he was virtually the first one to utter the words (essentially) “Ray Leonard needed secret fights for the ring rust not sparring” as a counter point. “Doh”

 

George Kimball - Did it feel like a real fight?

“Yes,” said Leonard. “Except I didn’t get paid.”

 

I included Leonard’s prep as it was obviously relevant to the question of ring rust and the claim that Foreman didn’t suffer from same when he fought Lyle. Perfectly on point.

You introduced the contention as if someone here stated/implied that Leonard’s prep was interpreted as some form of cheating. No one here did imply or state same.

I appreciate your answer re ring rust. Thanks.

Agree that it’s not perfectly quantifiable but think it would always exists and in no mean measure after a prolonged hiatus and lack of actual fights, notwithstanding gym work otherwise.

And that’s before analysing if the fighter in question had even utilised gym training to best/optimal advantage.

It doesn’t seem Foreman made any special efforts if much effort at all in training going into the Lyle fight - and, FWIW, Foreman himself said that he was rusty and needed more actual fights to properly tune himself up.

 

Ah gee. Again?

As described, for all intents and purposes, they were as close to real fights as one can have.

You’re stuck on the head gear and smaller gloves fallacy - ignoring that Ray himself didn’t wear same.

For Ray, they were as good as real fights, with Leonard being further handicapped by his opponents advantages in respect of said apparel. Again, this isn’t rocket science.

Yes, you are in the wrong thread when you want to bang on about any alleged contention that Ray cheated in his prep.

I didn’t bring up SRL vs Hagler. You did.

I addressed Ray’s prep for Hagler, as it clearly related to the question of ring rust - ring rust that Foreman clearly exhibited against Lyle - with someone else in denial of that fact because their primary agenda is and has always been to irrationally bang on Foreman.

No, I don’t get to dictate parameters but I’ll call it when someone has brought up something totally out of left field that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand - which is exactly what you did.

Not to overly accomodate the digression and a brief answer will suffice - but who exactly has ever claimed that Leonard’s prep and however way he chose to prep somehow constituted “cheating”?

 

And, your point is?…..correct, you don’t even know.

Ray’s recapture of himself was unprecedented - not the “as you go” recapture that you claim is simply achieved via hard sparring.

Was anyone saying that some hard sparring would be enough to bring Ray back to or near enough to what he once was? No, no one was saying that.

I’m sure they accepted that Ray would train “as you go” but also understood that he would carry rust without any real fights under his belt over the preceding 3 years.

Double “Doh”!

 

OK FINE THEN. I'll take the 280lb version with modern nutrition, weightlifting AND steroids.

 

All that popcorn fake muscle he’ll never lift deers the way he used to…

 

I don't know what to tell ya man. If I make Jeffries any bigger he's gonna look like veiny peanut with hands. Surely Foreman can't cope with a 280lb roided monster?

 

The right way is to leave him “small” and talk about how big he hypothetically could be, the more vague and bone structure centric your argument the better.

 

I was thinking that Jeffries' boilermaking abilities could be brought up as a kind of a counterweight to Foreman's cow-lifting exploits. You have got to have big, strong bones to make boilers! Industrial grade bones. Modern boxers don't have such beautiful thick bones.

 

Oh that may be true… BUT how many people has Jeff mugged?

 

You're right. Without "mugger strength" Jeffries doesn't really stand a chance. I was foolish to even consider it.