Could anyone out slug young Foreman?

I think even when GF went to the body, Ali controlled the distance and GF didn't know how to shorten up his body shots. GF was standing square and throwing wide, telegraphed punches and Ali would pull, push, or step into him as he threw and make the punches go around him or fall short. If GF had known how to put his left leg forward and bring his body punches up and make them shorter, he might have at least made Ali uncomfortable.

That silly heavy bag display that Norman Mailer gushes over, where GF hit a bag that was held by a trainer with the same type of slow, wide punches probably gave Ali the confidence that he could control GF on the inside. If GF's trainer had taught him how to throw useful body punches he would have been more competitive.

 

I'm not "piling on" asterisks. It's a fact Wladmir hadn't reached his stride as a champion when Brewster beat him and had a bad chin. It's a fact Vitali was an arm puncher and that his gruesome, unusual cut bailed Lewis out. It's a fact Ike had an incredibly thin resume and is pretty unproven outside of two fights and so on.

None of them are as impressive as Foreman suffering a devasting loss in the biggest fight of his life with a shattered ego, taking over a year off, then getting off the floor to beat a hard hitting slugger.

I think you completely missed my point.

I am not saying Foreman is the best slugger because of the Lyle fight. I am saying all this downplaying is absolutely ludicrous because I have never once in my 6+ years being on this forum seen someone penalize a boxer for winning a grueling slugfest (or acting as if it's no big deal) the way people do with Foreman. It's nuts. The fact it's such a unique accomplishment you can't give me similar examples is exactly why it can't be downplayed.

Also, this is my second time bringing this up: Foreman's reputation as a destroyer who crushes people who try to bring the fight to him aggressively on the front foot isn't built upon the Lyle fight alone, it's also based on the Frazier, Ledoux, Chuvalo, etc fights.

Now to address your last sentence, if it's not unique (and I'm holding you to this now) show me another heavyweight who won a grueling slugfest getting off the floor to win.

I'll get one out the way since you can't think of any: Dempsey vs Firpo. No one honest with themselves thinks Dempsey is beating Foreman. Do you have any other suggestions?

Frazier had an 84% KO ratio.

He had 14 KOs in the first 3 rounds.

That is proof he's a hard puncher and didn't need to always grind people down with an accumulation of punches to take them out. That's a myth. As far as ranked competition goes, he knocked out, dropped, or stopped plenty of ranked men, some of them early.

He knocked down and stopped slick guys like Machen

He knocked down and stopped the enormous, undefeated Mathis who was 40 lbs heavier.

He stopped durable iron chinned guys like Quarry and Chuvalo

He even knocked down the much taller, defensive minded Bugner who outweighed him by 13 lbs.

It didn't matter the style or size of the opponents, Frazier's power was effective and painful. Yet his power bounced off Foreman like a water balloon. So all credit must be given to Foreman who steamrolled him with ease.

No one is saying Frazier had comparable power to someone like Shavers, Tua, etc, but he had serious and respectable power and he was a slugger. This is just more of your dishonest attempts to downplay Foreman's resume and credentials as the King of sluggers.

 

No offense, but you'll look like a jackass if you start to actually write a technical break down.

"Yes, I'm aware Frazier scored numerous devastating KOs and knock downs, including knocking down arguably the greatest Heavyweight whoever lived and won the fight of the century using his left hook. I'm aware he demolished multiple ranked contenders and won a gold medal with his hook. But bear with me, I'm going to do a technical breakdown on why he threw it wrong".

 

Hold on, are you seriously using Golota and Grant as examples of Lewis "winning slug fests"...?

Golota and Grant were sitting ducks, deers in headlights. The two of them barely managed to throw a single punch before Lewis began unloading hellacious shots on them. Neither of them showed any grit or fortitude and barely threw anything at Lewis let alone landing much (especially Golota).

Yet you have the audacity to try to explain why my argument about the Lyle fight is bad (while simultaneously completely missing my point and creating a strawman). Is this an episode of Black mirror?

 

I've never said anything about not needing to shift your weight in "boxing". You seem edgy, fragile, perturbed, insecure.

 

I don't know if it is urban myth, but at least one Ali biography I've read, maybe Hauser's, suggested Ali was urinating blood for a while after the fight. I'd say even if that isn't true, Big George hitting the body in a crude, uneducated manner would still hurt plenty....

 

This is probably your third strawman. Were you always this disingenuous?

When did I penalize Lewis for storming out his corner from the opening bell to dispatch Golota and Grant? It was the right game plan and it was smart, he hardly took any punishment.

No one on God's green Earth would call either of those fights "slug fests", they were executions. A slugfest only has one meaning: 2 guys standing at ring center exchanging power punches with little regard for defense, pacing, or scoring points.

 

Well this is embarrassing. The gent whose words who you have based your whole argument on has now said Frazier did throw the hook correctly and you now go against him? You've been jamming the whole is a boxing trainer thing down everyone's throat but now that trainer has clarified his stance you disregard him? Not to mention rough giving his expert opinion that's now irrelevant to you lol. I've seen Rough slugging it out and it even impressed Morlocks at a time he was goading him. Not only does he know his stuff he can strut it very impressively in the ring too. It's good that you can enlighten him with your wisdom.

You can't make this stuff up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus

 

Deja Vú. Vietnam flashbacks.

I seem to recall Journeyman arguing with me until he was blue in the face that Foreman wasn't an arm puncher. I then tagged one of his favorite trainers Greynotsoold into the discussion, and he flat out stated he believes Foreman was an arm puncher.

It was one of the most embarrassing moments I've ever witnessed on a forum of any kind, yet here he has managed to outdo himself with this left hook argument.

You know how gen z uses the word "carry", such as when they say LeBron carried his team in the finals? What's a good antonym for carry? "Dropping"? Because whatever that is, it's what he's been doing for 21 pages.

He wouldn't win an MVP, he'd win the MSP (Most Shameful Poster).

 

Can anyone slug it out on a boxing forum with young Rough?

I think I have a fairly impressive slugging percentage here but all my wins are internet decisions (I think some of the early ones might have been newspaper decisions when those were still viable enterprises) and frankly I’ve done a lot of cherry-picking in choosing opponents.

 

I've grown a bigger over the years as I've gotten to 'man' size. But @Johnny_B would still spark me to the stratosphere, as he would've done to Marciano.

 

Don’t leave. I like it. That was a KENYA!

 

Lose? I would duck him shamelessly.

 

I’m not sure about on a boxing forum but he sure went well in the ring. The guy can hammer. Footage definitely puts him above Harry Greb.

 

I so remember all that......i guess how could i forget LOL. I've seen a lot of good posts from Grey on the technical side. He knows his stuff and he's flexible. I remember a lot of people bagging some film of a guy that came up one time. He basically said when you see a guy that doesn't look very good but is beating top shelf opponents you need to look at why because he's obviously got something good going on. It was a great point.

MSP LOLOLOL