Could anyone out slug young Foreman?

I think Ali was winning but he took a lot of punishment to do so...

 

Can I take Joe Joyce and Chisora?

 

Joyce is an interesting one that will depend on how much you think his chin got cracked by age. That said, at least the idea of Foreman shoving Joyce backward and manhandling him -- which he's usually predicted to do in versus threads against other types of opponents -- would be laughable.

Re: Chisora, a fight against Frazier's budget, two handed, much larger and less skilled modern brother would be interesting, yes.

 

Joyce is as slow as F but he's incredibly durable and he can go all night. Foreman in my opinion would be at a disadvantage if he tried to go blow for blow with Joyce.

 

I understand what you mean, Ali was right there in front of GF, but I never thought Ali took much punishment. You can see Ali being interviewed after the fight and he doesn't have a mark on him. He does mention that GF thumbed him in the right eye, he also tells the interviewer that GF can't punch and has no power. Go to about the one hour mark.

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Imagine being so underwhelmed by somebody that you have to ungraciously point it out after you beat him.

Shades of "Carnera had nothing."

 

Ali took a few clean shots in the earlier rounds but he did a good job of protecting his chin and temple, vital spots.

Ofcourse Foreman was distaining all defense for the most part. Ali was punching in between Foreman's rushes. They were clean and straight down the pipe.

One thing Ali didnt do was crouch into any uppercuts. He leaned back, away from George's clubs. Its no secret that Foreman fought a horrible fight. No poise at all.

 

I don't think he took many head shots, but he took a beating to the body.

 

Ali had beaten him before the bell. Fighting angry is never a good move, and it showed

 

I think even when GF went to the body, Ali controlled the distance and GF didn't know how to shorten up his body shots. GF was standing square and throwing wide, telegraphed punches and Ali would pull, push, or step into him as he threw and make the punches go around him or fall short. If GF had known how to put his left leg forward and bring his body punches up and make them shorter, he might have at least made Ali uncomfortable.

That silly heavy bag display that Norman Mailer gushes over, where GF hit a bag that was held by a trainer with the same type of slow, wide punches probably gave Ali the confidence that he could control GF on the inside. If GF's trainer had taught him how to throw useful body punches he would have been more competitive.

 

I'm not "piling on" asterisks. It's a fact Wladmir hadn't reached his stride as a champion when Brewster beat him and had a bad chin. It's a fact Vitali was an arm puncher and that his gruesome, unusual cut bailed Lewis out. It's a fact Ike had an incredibly thin resume and is pretty unproven outside of two fights and so on.

None of them are as impressive as Foreman suffering a devasting loss in the biggest fight of his life with a shattered ego, taking over a year off, then getting off the floor to beat a hard hitting slugger.

I think you completely missed my point.

I am not saying Foreman is the best slugger because of the Lyle fight. I am saying all this downplaying is absolutely ludicrous because I have never once in my 6+ years being on this forum seen someone penalize a boxer for winning a grueling slugfest (or acting as if it's no big deal) the way people do with Foreman. It's nuts. The fact it's such a unique accomplishment you can't give me similar examples is exactly why it can't be downplayed.

Also, this is my second time bringing this up: Foreman's reputation as a destroyer who crushes people who try to bring the fight to him aggressively on the front foot isn't built upon the Lyle fight alone, it's also based on the Frazier, Ledoux, Chuvalo, etc fights.

Now to address your last sentence, if it's not unique (and I'm holding you to this now) show me another heavyweight who won a grueling slugfest getting off the floor to win.

I'll get one out the way since you can't think of any: Dempsey vs Firpo. No one honest with themselves thinks Dempsey is beating Foreman. Do you have any other suggestions?

Frazier had an 84% KO ratio.

He had 14 KOs in the first 3 rounds.

That is proof he's a hard puncher and didn't need to always grind people down with an accumulation of punches to take them out. That's a myth. As far as ranked competition goes, he knocked out, dropped, or stopped plenty of ranked men, some of them early.

He knocked down and stopped slick guys like Machen

He knocked down and stopped the enormous, undefeated Mathis who was 40 lbs heavier.

He stopped durable iron chinned guys like Quarry and Chuvalo

He even knocked down the much taller, defensive minded Bugner who outweighed him by 13 lbs.

It didn't matter the style or size of the opponents, Frazier's power was effective and painful. Yet his power bounced off Foreman like a water balloon. So all credit must be given to Foreman who steamrolled him with ease.

No one is saying Frazier had comparable power to someone like Shavers, Tua, etc, but he had serious and respectable power and he was a slugger. This is just more of your dishonest attempts to downplay Foreman's resume and credentials as the King of sluggers.

 

No offense, but you'll look like a jackass if you start to actually write a technical break down.

"Yes, I'm aware Frazier scored numerous devastating KOs and knock downs, including knocking down arguably the greatest Heavyweight whoever lived and won the fight of the century using his left hook. I'm aware he demolished multiple ranked contenders and won a gold medal with his hook. But bear with me, I'm going to do a technical breakdown on why he threw it wrong".

 

Hold on, are you seriously using Golota and Grant as examples of Lewis "winning slug fests"...?

Golota and Grant were sitting ducks, deers in headlights. The two of them barely managed to throw a single punch before Lewis began unloading hellacious shots on them. Neither of them showed any grit or fortitude and barely threw anything at Lewis let alone landing much (especially Golota).

Yet you have the audacity to try to explain why my argument about the Lyle fight is bad (while simultaneously completely missing my point and creating a strawman). Is this an episode of Black mirror?

 

See my reply to @Melankomas earlier when he asked to define a slugfest.

It's not my post that's a Black Mirror episode. You are penalizing Lewis for not taking punches when he attacked Grant and Golota and blasted them out.

Meanwhile, somehow, Foreman gets points for Lyle knocking him down and nearly taking him out. Seems surreal.

 

I've never said anything about not needing to shift your weight in "boxing". You seem edgy, fragile, perturbed, insecure.