Could Chuvalo Have Upset The Bear In 1964?

Ali came up with the nickname after Chuvalo's win over Mike DeJohn. Watch the climactic moment of that fight and you'll see why.

 

Nope.

Chuvalo too slow and unskilled to trouble Liston.
He would be just target practice for Sonny.

 

I cannot forget the press conference that Muhammad Ali was doing when The Washerwoman appeared, garb and all.

 

Chuvalo wouldn't have had a chance against prime Sonny. It might've looked similar to Liston's one-sided win against Willi Besmanoff. But it's a more intriguing fight in 1964 when Chuvalo was still in his prime and Liston was showing his age (whatever that was). Sonny would have been forced to fight harder against an opponent who was capable of tiring him out after five rounds. According to some, Liston didn't like getting hit in the belly. That's why he made a big show of catching the medicine ball -- to make it seem like a body attack wouldn't bother him. I believe Chuvalo would indeed bother him. And Sonny would get irritated at Chuvalo's roughhouse tactics like he got against Machen. Not a fight I'd bet on heavily. If I had to bet I'd take Liston in a 10-round match and Chuvalo in a 15-rounder. Interestingly, Sonny was lined up to fight Chuvalo in 1970 or '71. I think Chuvalo wins that one by decision and Liston retires after the fight.

How many of you know that Liston worked security for Doris Day, late '60s?

 

Don't Feed The Bear. Only You can Prevent Forrest Fires.

 

Apparently they were friends. I read somewhere she was at his funeral.

 

Excellent post.

Interesting that some claimed that Liston didn’t like it to the body. I hadn’t heard/read that before.

Prime Liston always appeared terrifically conditioned, including the ab area. The medicine ball workouts looked for real - Liston’s trainer really hurling it without Liston flinching or being bodily shifted in the slightest.

Perhaps some people were trying to invent a weakness in the otherwise, seemingly invincible Liston.

Many years prior, Jack Johnson was also accused of not liking it to the body, another fighter without seeming weaknesses otherwise - of course the claim was completely untrue (the claim was also actually made racially against Black fighters in general) and Johnson’s stomach was like a washboard for his fight against Jeffries in 1910.

Totally agree that there is the possibility of the 64 version tiring out. Even prime Ali had to take time outs from pounding Chuvalo - and Ali was looking tired in the later rounds. When lever Ali stopped punching, there was George, ever present and ready to punch back anytime Ali wasn’t punching himself.

With greater power, Liston could hope to slow Chuvalo down far more than Ali did and of course he also has a fair chance of stoppage before his stamina becomes any issue.

Never heard it before but I like the idea of Liston body guarding Doris Day - the ansolute antithesis of one another in terms of disposition and associated facial expressions.

Fair to say that no one would’ve said that Liston made the sun shine brighter than Doris Day….even though his nickname was Sonny…

 

Liston could be charming when neither the press nor the cops were around. Among those close to him -/ family and friends -- he was thought of as fun-loving. He also had animal magnetism. Very few people ever meet such a powerful physical presence.There was a very good profile of him written by a female sportswriter in Sports Illustrated, that depicted him in a much more human way. I don't remember the writer's name. She quoted him as saying that at night his ankles swelled. I thought that might have been a significant, overlooked fact related to his health and possible cause of death.

I believe the comment about not liking it downstairs came from an old sparring partner of Liston's, Ben Skelton. As I recall it was in Sports Illustrated, just before the first Patterson bout. I'll try to find it.

 

Cheers for that. I’ll try to remember to chase up that SI Article by the female writer - easy enough to do a search on their SI Vault page which is a terrific resource

 

Here's the article about Ben Skelton, a Liston sparring partner for the first Patterson bout. It wasn't Skelton who claimed Liston didn't like it in the belly. It might've been Bert Whitehurst who said it. I'll look for that.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1962/09/24/a-sparring-partner-looks-them-over

 

Here's the story about four Liston foes who had some success against him. One is a guy named McCarter who says Liston hated being on the receiving end of a body attack.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1964/02/10/the-four-who-baffled-liston

https://vault.si.com/vault/1964/02/10/the-four-who-baffled-liston

 

I am not yet able to find the Liston profile written by a woman. I looked in the SI Vault, didn't see it there. It might've been published somewhere else. Here's what I remember:

The interview took place in Liston's Denver home with Mrs. Liston present. The writer had observed interactions between Liston and male sportswriters and she commented how the writers seemed effete in how they baited Sonny on the subject of his age. Geraldine Liston tells her he's a kind man despite appearances. "He's just got that look," Mrs. Liston says. Also I remember Liston telling her something possibly indicating he has hypertension or heart disease: "my ankles swell" (at night).