Could Ezzard Charles, on performance enhancing drugs, equal Holyfield's record?

He didn’t have near Evanders chin and was smaller in height and reach by a significant amount.

 

This thread...

1. Holyfield was 2" taller
2. Hollyfield was 10lb heavier both beeing trimmed
3. Holyfield had a rocksolid mandible, also due to a gentically thick neck.

What logic makes Charles do the same LHW-Transformation as Holyfield? Like two other legends from LHW doing the same transformation easily, hm? Like Michael Spinks and Michael Moorer, who both got the same body-frame as Holyfield, but failing miserably too accomplish what Holyfield could do?

But yeah, I guess all three, Spinks, Moorer and PED Charles all would make a

- George Foreman
- Larry Holmes
- Riddick Bowe three times
- Mike Tyson two times
- Lennox Lewis two times
- Sparring a young David Tua without any problem

Getting stopped 1 out of 9 times here.

Sure, lets bet on Ezzard Charles!!!

 

True but an Ali, McCall, Foreman, Tyson, Chuvalo and Holyfield take that shot for me.

I am hypothesising that if Charles replaced Evan Fields with a combination of his own skill set and the natural advantages of nutrition and sports science combined with roids that Real Deal enjoyed, he develops a thicker frame that could withstand a better shot than the version that we saw did.

 

I appreciate that.

A roided version born of Charles born in Evander’s place likely is a tad taller due to advance in nutrition and significantly stronger due to advanced sports science let alone roids.

This is my point - with his physique benefitting from PEDs in addition to nutrition and sports science, are we supposing that his chin improves and yet do we hypothesise that it improves enough to allow him to go through the fighters that Holyfield faced without getting starched?

 

Absolutely

 

I've never seen any evidence that chins improve. Never even heard the argument. Nor reach grows. Nor a person gets taller in eighteen months .. I say this with all respect to Charles who I think may have been the best pound for pound fighter ever.

 

I have my doubts that they do if the relative size is equalize and they have the kind of mileage Charles had at that point. I believe he was at 76 fights using traditional Gladiator academy mentality, who knows what that would equate to today. Chins degrade over time.

 

I’m imagining Charles born in Holyfield’s era replacing him in his career journey.

 

I’ve imagined Charles with his skill set born in Holyfield’s time and having the advantages of roids, nutrition and sports science to add beneficial muscle to his frame. This Charles would have stronger legs and neck musculature in my opinion and should thus stand a better chance of withstanding such punches.

I do concede to your point about ring wear and tear but would still likely suspect that an old Ali, Chuvalo, Foreman etc. don’t get starched by that punch. I wasn’t arguing the p4p credentials as if we make Jersey Joe relative to the natural size difference versus Charles, I was simply talking about the punch.

I’ve often heard Charles described as a LHW version of the best SRR which, ring records being equal, would make him a better p4p specimen.

Chins don’t ordinarily improve as you age but a fighter can learn how to roll with a punch properly and a thicker frame can add to punch resistance. I’m merely asking the question of whether Charles born in a later era, same skillset, better nutrition throughout his childhood and career, arguably taller and naturally bigger, roided up and benefitting from functional boxing-specific weights training has a significantly better chin than the Charles that we did know.

 

I hear you, and in fact I think we are in overall agreement. Frankly, I think you only place that we really part company, correct me if I’m wrong, is that you were suggesting that his chin may be vastly improved whereas it I think that his chin is underestimated and later KO’s are more attributable to wear and tear rather than being deficient.

But now I think you also raised another issue, did that generation of fighter benefit over the short run with the gladiator academy approach but paid the price over the long haul?

 

Hmmm, we are in complete agreement. He was dropped but got up, other than Jersey Joe, which admittedly was a wickedly thrown accurate shot.

I was merely playing Devil’s Advocate and taking many hypothetical leaps of faith in how the variables might play out. I often wonder how Charles, Robinson, Langford, Dempsey would have fared if they were born in the 1970s, with their exact skillsets, and had the benefit of improved nutrition from birth right through their career, intelligent steroid assistance and boxing-specific weights training to increase their functional strength and explosiveness.

I definitely think so. For someone like Charles who has gone through so much in the ring, the reflexes slow down, ability to pull the trigger when you want starts to wane and when facing naturally bigger men the punch resistance slowly can get punched out of you. Eventually, you get found “old” or “chinny” all of a sudden. You can see it in Hagler post Hearns - whilst obviously not chinny, not as speedy or as fluid as the Hagler that took out Sibson.

What gives the Charles generation of fighter my kudos is that in facing such a gauntlet of fighter, fighters like Charles created a ring record that the modern fighter just couldn’t hope to replicate in terms of quality of opposition and in my opinion, overall skills and trickery.

 

Another example of there has to be a movie or two in there somewhere and yet I am unaware of definitive bio! You could probably carve three or four modern and careers 120+ flights, especially in today’s environment of additional weight classes and alphabet alphabet tiles. He did this while also becoming respected a highly respected jazz bass player and nicks in his final battle with ALS and I bet you there is a pretty good love story in there!

 

He was a better fighter too and did pretty well as it was as a heavyweight. It's an interesting thought for sure.

 

Juiced Foreman would look like a goddamn super mutant. http://stereochampions.com/wp-conte...n-Strong-Stereo-Champions-How-To1-670x435.jpg