could fernando vargas beat paul williams or sergio martinez?

He was about 10 times faster than Margarito, who gave Paul all he could handle.

About 10 times faster than Kelly Pavlik too, who gave Martinez a pretty rough time of it. If Pavlik didn't get cut, that fight could have turned out differently.

 

I'd favor Vargas over both, especially Williams who he'd do a demolition job on.

 

Nando would have beaten the living **** outta Paul.

Martinez would have been a much tougher fight for him, but I'd favor Vargas at 154.

98-00 Vargas was a HELLUVA fighter.

 

Martinez is 7x faster than Winky Wright, who gave Vargas all he can handle.

 

It's not like he got a fluke cut that changed everything for him.. He was cut over both eyes and had a bloody nose and mouth too, I think, because he was getting dominated. Without that knockdown, which was not really caused much by Pavlik's punching that I recall, there wouldn't have been any perception of Pavlik having a mid-fight rally after the easy first four being swept by Sergio and the last rounds being a complete mess for Pavlik.

 

Martinez and Wright were nothing alike stylewise. Winky had that tight guard, that EXCELLENT right jab, and was alot physically stronger than Martinez.

Maravilla is faster handed than Wright ever was, and has more pop than Winky, but despite his quickness he isnt as defensively sound as Wright, and he sometimes has lulls in which Nando would capitalize on.

Prime Vargas was a MUCH better techncian than Williams, Pavlik, and Cintron.

Not saying that Martinez would be an easy fight for Vargas. But I'd favor Nando, at 154 at least.

 

I had the 5th, 7th and 8th rounds scored for Pavlik, with the 6th being an even round. Pavlik WAS coming on in that fight. Martinez had to change his game up and gambled by standing his ground and throwing combos. He ended up cutting Pavlik and that changed the fight.

The cut wasn't a fluke or an accident, Martinez caused it, but by the same token, if they fought multiple times, Pavlik would not get cut every time.

I like Martinez, but I think he's starting to get overrated quite a bit. Lest we forget that this was a guy who lost to Paul Williams a little while ago (I had it a draw). People now act like Williams is no where near his league as a fighter.

 

Three rounds doesn't signify a telling kind of trouble here, against a very large and powerful middleweight, imo. I also think Sergio started to coast a bit, during an optical illusion of a Pavlik rally or SNV forbid some kind of ring IQ dependent adjustment he may have made but regardless the point was certainly not "Kelly would get cut every time" but rather differently, I was trying to say he was cut because he was outmatched, as opposed to being outmatched because he happened to get cut. And yes, I do consider that an example of being outmatched.

As far as Martinez being overrated, there's been plenty of bandwagon happy fans out there popping up this year but that's to be expected. I'm not one of them. I felt he'd probably beat Williams the first time, and I felt he did, although I didn't see it as a robbery. I do believe that was a clash of styles that caused two fighters of at least slightly different classes to be extremely competitive though, and that the rematch strengthened the case for that theory, as did the Pavlik victory, which I don't believe Paul would have achieved had he been in there instead.

 

Word, BE. I think Sergio is finally getting the credit he deserves. He was landing some of the fastest punches I've ever seen on Cintron.

 

You havent seen much then.

 

No, I have.

 

yes, he is a very humble guy, he live and he was training in spain, madrid.

 

pw yes

martinez maybe

 

Yes he could beat both at his best