Could Frazier defeat Foreman, ever?

He would have to fight George the way he did in their rematch. If he were younger, he may have been successful fighting Foreman in that manner. Foreman would be a far less threat for the ko after 7, and that would give Frazier 8 rounds to take the fight over.

 

Good point,but I just can't see Frazier fighting in that defensive style for a sustained period,and being effective.

 

I'm not so sure about that. I was at that 2nd Foreman/Frazier bout and the crowd was about 95% for Smokin Joe before the bell rang. By the 3rd round, you could easily sense that Joe was just lasting rounds and was not going to beat the guy. Surviving, but that was about it. It was a matter of waiting for George to land a combo and the bout would be over. Similar to other fights like Tyson--Biggs & you can feel it and taste it.

 

Too small too one dimensional. Stylistic bad matchup.

 

no... never.. i admire joe very much.. he has the most heart i have seen and lot's of stamina and toughness but joe is a pressure fighter always going forward. and that kinda style is deadwrong against foreman. like the saying goes : swarmers beat boxers -- boxers beat sluggers --- sluggers beat swarmers

 

Not necessarily but in the case of Frazier, he showed little dimension to his game. There are swarmers with excellent defensive and counter punching ability. Frazier was more predictable in his approach in my opinion.

 

As many have already stated, this was simply a very bad match for Frazier stylistally. No, it does not necessarily reflect that Foreman was a better career fighter than Frazier, but head to head I really can't see a strategy that Frazier was capable of executing against George.

 

Ya I'd always thought that Frazier-Foreman was a classic styles clash that was always going to go against Frazer.

But I think I heard a quote from Foreman something to the effect of, thank god he didn't had to face the version that Ali faced 2 years earlier. That version was far more mobile and dangerous.

It still would have been a terrible styles clash for Frazier but maybe with better movement he might have gotten inside on Foreman.

 

This is an excellent point. I too think Frazier could have done better if he had the speed and ferocity that he had in ALI I. He was never the same after that. Frazier moved towards Foreman much slower than he did Ali, and threw less, and with less snap. A ref who stops George from pushing also would help big time.

All that said, I only think it helps Joe do better, not win. I agree with those who say at some point Foreman nails him well, and then finishes him. Just too much power, and the style is all wrong. Frazier was too short, had to and would move into Foreman's punching range, and he was not a slick desfensive speedster outside boxer type, or a clutching smothering guy like Young, which we all know is what you needed to beat George. Frazier was absolutely made to order for Foreman. Because Joe was a fighter who came to fight, he'd get KO'd. Perhaps if Joe was willing to box and grab more...he'd do better. But again, I just don't see that happening, because it wasn't in his nature to fight that way.

 

nope

styles makes fights and smoking Joe never beats big george in a even playing field

the only way he beats him is if he goes in with a massive adavantage in terms of age/experience and prime

basically only if george was shot or a toddler

 

Low blow american style plus blind ref.

 

Of course Frazier COULD beat Foreman on a particular night, under a particular set of circumstances...uh...10 rounds and Joe manages to avoid or smother George's big bombs, and lands enough to get a decision win, or something similar.

But.

If somehow we could have Foreman against Frazier, prime and prime, 10 times, I'm betting my money on Foreman, even up, 10 times...and showing a very healthy profit...in my opinion. I would guess that George wins at least 9 of those 10 fights.

 

You dont think Frazier looked so good against Ali because of his style which was moving back instead of only forward not to mention Foreman was physically stronger?

 

'68-'71 Frazier plus a referee that doesn't allow shoving has a chance; Big George still a strong favorite, though.

 

That is true, but I don't remember anybody going straight forward on Foreman with dedication and determination. Frazier didn't do that, either Norton. That was very strange for me. Were they so scared of him?:huh