Could Fury have beaten prime Wladimir?

gdm · Jan 24, 2021

Loudon said: ↑

What would he have done differently though?

The fact that Wlad could let his hands go against Joshua a few years later, tells us that it was Tyson specifically who prevented him from doing so when they met.
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Tell me why people at 40 can’t do things they did in their twenties? Wlad’s reflexes were gone and it was clear against jennings.

BCS8 · Jan 24, 2021

Loudon said: ↑

I don’t agree with this at all.

Even a prime Steward trained version of Wlad was always cautious due to his early knockout defeats.

We saw how he fought Povetkin. We saw how tentative and negative he was.

We also saw how he fought Haye after Haye had disrespected his family.

Wlad’s issues were psychological rather than physical. Of course a fighter slows down with age. We all know that. But why could he only let his hands go in the 12th round and not in the previous 11?
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Because he knew he'd blown the fight and needed to finish strongly, possibly needing a KO.

Loudon said: ↑

Saying that Tyson ducked a rematch is also silly. We’re talking here about a guy who went to Detroit on his own in order to train with Wlad’s mentor. We’re talking about a guy who did a complete psyche job on Wlad before beating him in Germany.
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It's not silly because that's exactly what happened. The rematch was due, Fury knew it and even did publicity for it. Fury postponed the fight twice and then simply never went through with it. That's as much of a duck as there's ever been.

Loudon said: ↑

We’re talking about a guy who came back from the brink of suicide to lose an enormous amount of weight after over 3 years of activity, before having a few tune ups and then fighting one of the most dangerous and unpredictable fighters in the world. We’re talking about a guy who then rematched Wilder after almost being knocked out. We’re talking about a guy who is about to fight AJ and who has a supreme level of confidence and drive.
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Except, of course, that we're also talking about a guy that signed for the rematch and never went through with it. A ducker.

Loudon said: ↑

Personally, I think it’s ignorant to think that he genuinely went off the rails due to him ducking and fearing Wlad. I think it’s ignorant and illogical. It’s just not in his mental make up.
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Meanwhile, Fury who is so amazing and brave, never rematched Klitschko despite saying he would.

Loudon said: ↑

Tyson went off the rails because he has various mental health issues.
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So that's why he ducked Wlad? OK.

Loudon said: ↑

Any prime version of Wlad would have had huge issues with everything that Tyson brought to the ring.
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Nah. It's obvious Wlad wasn't himself in the Fury fight and the rematch that Fury ducked would have demonstrated it. A prime version of Klitschko obliterates Fury.

Loudon said: ↑

The pre-prime vulnerable versions of Wlad who lost to Sanders and Purrity would have been far more dangerous to Fury. Because those versions of Wlad would have been much more aggressive and much less respectful of him.
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Possibly.

Benladdie3000 · Jan 24, 2021

Fury did beat clit in his prime

gdm · Jan 24, 2021

Benladdie3000 said: ↑

Fury did beat clit in his prime
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hahha lol .

The Real Lance · Jan 24, 2021

Loudon said: ↑

How’s it going mate?

Wlad was always cautious, even during his long reign.

I think that Tyson’s attributes would always have been problematic.
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Good, how's your world? I agree with you on Wlad's safety first approach. One thing i never liked was how come of these powerful giants (Wlad and LL mainly), would fight so cautiously. Certainly their chin is a deciding factor. Wlad was a smart boxer to go with his huge punch. I feel he'd find a way to beat Fury in his prime. Then again, Fury is no slouch. Shame we the timing isn't right for many. Would have loved to see someone like Fury in the 2000's.

piprules · Jan 24, 2021

Perkin Warbeck said: ↑

Klitschko wasn't himself the night he lost to Fury.

Wlad had personal problem's with his girlfriend's postpartum depression so he wasn't completely focused. The Furys played some dirty games before the fight, removing the padding from the ring floor to make it tougher on Wlad's old legs, and making Wlad re-wrap his hands because Fury Sr was late showing up to observe.

Despite Wlad being two years older at age 41, Joshua fought a better, more focused version of Wlad. And Joshua won impressively and deservedly, while Fury fought like a coward.
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You hit the nail on the head pal.

piprules · Jan 24, 2021

Loudon said: ↑

I don’t agree with this at all.

Even a prime Steward trained version of Wlad was always cautious due to his early knockout defeats.

We saw how he fought Povetkin. We saw how tentative and negative he was.

We also saw how he fought Haye after Haye had disrespected his family.

Wlad’s issues were psychological rather than physical. Of course a fighter slows down with age. We all know that. But why could he only let his hands go in the 12th round and not in the previous 11?

Now I’m willing to accept that his personal issues with his wife could have affected his camp. But I don’t believe for a second that they prevented him from letting his hands go when he was face to face with Tyson in the ring. Banks was telling him to change his tactics and to let his hands go, yet he could only do it for a very brief period right at the end of the fight. That was nothing to do with his personal issues IMHO. It was a mental blockage. He’d never met anyone with Tyson’s speed, size, skills and confidence before, and he couldn’t cope with it psychologically.

Saying that Tyson ducked a rematch is also silly. We’re talking here about a guy who went to Detroit on his own in order to train with Wlad’s mentor. We’re talking about a guy who did a complete psyche job on Wlad before beating him in Germany. We’re talking about a guy who came back from the brink of suicide to lose an enormous amount of weight after over 3 years of activity, before having a few tune ups and then fighting one of the most dangerous and unpredictable fighters in the world. We’re talking about a guy who then rematched Wilder after almost being knocked out. We’re talking about a guy who is about to fight AJ and who has a supreme level of confidence and drive.

It is illogical to think that that same guy feared fighting Wlad in Manchester, when he’d just beaten him in Germany, before then doing everything that I’ve just mentioned above. Think about it. If he really feared a guy who he’d already beaten, why on earth would he have lost a hundred plus pounds and then chased down fights with Wilder and AJ? A man of that character who feared Wlad wouldn’t have been able to have done any of those things. A guy who feared rematching Wlad, would still be an obese couch potato who’d never have come back into the sport. A man of that character would be at home with his family, living a comfortable life with what he’d earnt from the sport. Personally, I think it’s ignorant to think that he genuinely went off the rails due to him ducking and fearing Wlad. I think it’s ignorant and illogical. It’s just not in his mental make up.

Tyson went off the rails because he has various mental health issues. He went through a period where he couldn’t even spend time with his own children. So are we really supposed to believe that the fear of losing to Wlad contributed to that severe mental state? Seriously? I think that’s absolutely ridiculous. If Tyson had’ve fought somebody else, then you may have had a case. But when a fighter nearly kills himself due to drink, drugs and depression, it doesn’t constitute as ducking someone.

Any prime version of Wlad would have had huge issues with everything that Tyson brought to the ring. And especially as his own mentor thought so highly of him and told Wlad that he’d be the next great fighter of the division.

The pre-prime vulnerable versions of Wlad who lost to Sanders and Purrity would have been far more dangerous to Fury. Because those versions of Wlad would have been much more aggressive and much less respectful of him.
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Nope,
Fury lucked a win over an unmotivated, old VK who had personal issues going on. Fury ran away from the rematch like a chicken.
I hope AJ knocks him out so we can be done with this nonsense.

Furious · Jan 25, 2021

RB1702 said: ↑

Ha I was just baiting. But if Fury beats AJ easily I’d have to just block miniq, swallow my pride, take my L and accept he’s the best wouldn’t I. He’s not gonna do that though because Fury struggles with aggressive combination punchers, Wallin was not a fluke, it’s a style he’s struggled with for years. Fury even spoke about how good an amateur AJ who had only been boxing 2 years was. Completely battered him in sparring.
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Is the sparring story from a decade ago that relevant? Besides, it seems the true account was round 1 Joshua got the better of him as Fury was messing around, round 2 - Fury, round 3 - even.
That’s from AJ’s amateur coach.

I think the big mitigating factor in the Wallin fight was the cut. In the end Fury won reasonably comfortably.

I do think him vs Joshua will be close though and would not be shocked if Joshua won.

MarkusFlorez99 · Jan 25, 2021

Brighton bomber said: ↑

Styles make fights and Fury's style is all wrong for Wlad. Prime Wlad may have done a bit better, been a bit quicker on the draw but I don't see how he could of ever beaten Fury fighting that kind of fight we saw. The spoiler was out spoiled.

Wlad's style under Steward was clear, beat opponent to the punch using speed and size and then spoil by clinching to prevent being countered or move, basically prevent any type of exchange of punches which led to Wlad being KO'ed in the past and control the pace to suit Wlad. Fury turned his own style against him, beat Wlad to the punch using his superior size and movement and Wlad being unable to counter and having spent a decade learning not to exchange was left with no way to amount any offence.

What could Wlad do differently? He isn't going to beat Fury to the punch even in his prime as he'd struggle to get in range and position to fire off first against the mobile Fury. He isn't suddenly going to abandoned the style that gave him a decade of dominance by suddenly becoming a pressure fighter and even if he could somehow go back to his old aggressive style, he'd have the same problems he had in the past and gas badly if he doesn't get Fury out early.

Plus Wlad was never a very adaptable fighter it took him years to learn from previous mistakes and master the style that led to his success, he isn't just going into a camp and changing his style so quickly.
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This is why i see Joshua possibly upsetting the odds. He's a good combination puncher unlike wlad, and doesn't usually fight tall, unlike wlad. And he's better than Wlad at going forwards.

If Fury came in at 246 or 250 like he did against Wlad I'd favor Fury slightly because Fury would be too quick and awkward for Ajs robotic rhythm but the high probability is he'll come in at 265+ because he's working on his Kronk and has said he'll use the Kronk against Joshua.

Really hope Fury's using mind games because if he uses the Kronk against Aj he'll get sent into Orbit

Drago · Jan 25, 2021

BCS8 said: ↑

It was Wlad that was the aggressor in the 12th
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MarkusFlorez99 said: ↑

Fury at the time flicked his jabs and could barely turn his shots over Thats why Wlad got more agressive in round 12. And him saying he saw Furys weakness in round 12 makes me believe he was going to go into the rematch with that mentality to let his hands go like he did in round 12
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Then watch the 12th round again:

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(clip starts on the right spot)

a) Fury was more offensive and thats why Wlad was able to look better in the 2nd half of the round
b) Wlad was just more offensive, it had nothing to do with Fury

I go with a but its up to you.
I say Fury was more offensive from the start of this round since his uncle Peter told him to go for the KO. And thats the main reason why Wlad looked better in the 12th round as in all 11 before.

But thats a matter of opinion.

Serge · Jan 25, 2021

Even the young pre-Steward Wlad who was a lot more aggressive, faster, with quicker reflexes and devastating power in both fists would spark Fury out. That version of Wlad was one of the most destructive and powerful offensive forces the HW division has ever seen.

Yes, I know he lost to Sanders, Puritty, and Brewster but the later two were due to stamina issues after he'd punched himself out beating the living **** out of two super tough and durable customers and Sanders was a murderous puncher with blazing fast hands who was capable of getting almost anyone out of there within the first four rounds when he was blowing hot. And Wlad was a lot lighter when he fought Puritty (224lbs). Pretty much everyone else that hell on wheels version of Wlad fought was taken out in HL reel or spectacular fashion and there aren't too many HWs out there who can soak up the kind of brutal punishment Puritty and Brewster did against Wlad.

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MarkusFlorez99 · Jan 25, 2021

Drago said: ↑

Then watch the 12th round again:

This content is protected

(clip starts on the right spot)

a) Fury was more offensive and thats why Wlad was able to look better in the 2nd half of the round
b) Wlad was just more offensive, it had nothing to do with Fury

I go with a but its up to you.
I say Fury was more offensive from the start of this round since his uncle Peter told him to go for the KO. And thats the main reason why Wlad looked better in the 12th round as in all 11 before.

But thats a matter of opinion.
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Fury was more offensive but when fury went back on the back foot Wladimir Started taking more risks and upped his work rate. Its even notable he did this as the select few moments Fury did come forward in the previous rounds Wlad clinched and looked frightened. Not the second half of this round though and that might just be why Wlad got more agressive. He realized Fury doesnt hit hard.

Richmondpete · Jan 25, 2021

Fury was always going to be a bad matchup for Wlad but I think a younger Wlad has a good shot at a KO

dinovelvet · Jan 25, 2021

Drago said: ↑

Then watch the 12th round again:

This content is protected

(clip starts on the right spot)

a) Fury was more offensive and thats why Wlad was able to look better in the 2nd half of the round
b) Wlad was just more offensive, it had nothing to do with Fury

I go with a but its up to you.
I say Fury was more offensive from the start of this round since his uncle Peter told him to go for the KO. And thats the main reason why Wlad looked better in the 12th round as in all 11 before.

But thats a matter of opinion.
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Fury was all over the place in that round. I was surprised how sloppy he was when looking back.. A far cry from what he is now. . What he is now would have crumbled WK like a digestive biscuit.

Klitschko didn't have the ring IQ or variety to ever beat Fury. . You never lose Ring IQ . See Povetkin setting up the show stopper aginst Whyte.
Klitschko didn't have the tactical foresight to go to the body against a completely gassed out Joshua.

Furys ring IQ and adaptability was far greater than Wlads

dinovelvet · Jan 25, 2021

On WKs Stans going on about his personal problems as if they were his agony uncle..

Hows this for an excuse.

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Fury who thought so little of Wlad , wore a pair of boots that were given to him as a gift from Manny Stewart.

Think about that ... He wore an old crusty pair of boots that weren't even his own..!!! And had the skin sheared from his toes as a result.
No feet , trucks hanging down , hands behind his back. Inexperienced , pre-prime and fighting on a massive stage for the first time...
Klitschko STILL couldn't win

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