Could Holmes have gotten up from final knockdown?

No...he was really out ...could have been stopped after the second knock down

 

Not even if his corner had helped him by using a spatula...the man was out!!

 

Everyone in the arena acted like a doctor and rushed to the ring for fear that Holmes had just died. He wasn't getting up.

 

Hazarding a guess, I'd say no, but Cortez would be the best one to ask. It looked to me like Holmes might have stayed down, but what would have been the point of trying to get up with the referee over him like that?

Jimmy Ellis looked dead to the world after Frazier's hook flattened him to end round four of their first match. Smoke suggested to Jim Clash that it might have been the hardest single shot he ever delivered. But Ellis incredibly got up from it, although Dundee then stopped it between rounds. (Jimmy nearly beat the count against Shavers, the only time the full ten was ever counted over him, but he never had great recuperative powers. If he was stunned, he tended to remain stunned for the duration of the contest.)

I think Holmes might not have seen that final punch coming. Anybody who's had their arm caught up like Larry had his right hand trapped under the top rope during that uppercut attempt knows what a nastily distracting sensation that is, and he would have still been recovering from that when the final shot landed.

Because it was Larry Holmes, I can't say with confidence there was no chance he'd beat the count again. The belt Shavers decked him with may well have been the hardest punch of all time, and Holmes had gotten up fairly quickly from the previous two knockdowns Tyson administered. But the third one was clearly different, where he flopped slack on the deck. At that instant, he seemed more out of it than Michael Spinks would later be after his final knockdown at Tyson's hands.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxFcFCUAnW4[/ame]

I dont think so he was in bad shape. I think Cortez was looking to stop it when Tyson landed that second righthand.

 

Every time I tend to downplay Tyson's place in the big picture of boxing, every time I read a negative post about Tyson, or dwell on his defeats and his liabilities...those that have been revealed to the boxing public over the years, I get quickly brought back to another point of view when i look at this ko of Holmes, or the ko's of Biggs and Thomas..and the ko of Tubb as well. I don't discount the quick ko of Spinks, but that was almost a non-fight with an intimidated, almost ghostlike Spinks. Tyson's superiority was so great with Spinks. Tyson was a formidable executioner at one time and that still impresses me.

 

Tyson did exactly what he should have done to Michael Spinks, wipe out one of the slowest starting ATGs ever right out of the gate. But I have sometimes wondered what might have happened if Tyson had atypically allowed Spinks to warm up properly. Was Michael that badly over sized, outgunned and lacking in punch resistance, or was he simply caught cold? (And I'll never understand how an amateur champion like Michael, Palomino or Duane Bobick can morph into such a slow starter as a professional.)

 

That was kind of Tysons modus though. He didnt let anyone warm up. Im sure there were plenty of boxers who would fought Tyson better if he let them hang around for a few rounds. Tyson insists he carried Tillis too many rounds and thats what allowed him to finish the fight.

 

I doubt it.. But even if he had been allowed a chance to try and rise, what would have been the point?

 

Tyson said that Holmes was telling people to let him up while on the canvas.

I don't know if he could have gotten up, most probably not, but the fight was over. Tyson got what was essentially a free shot at Holmes when Holmes threw an uppercut which tangled his right arm on the ring ropes. Nobody is going to recover from that.

Looks well flattened to me:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSb4-ejQavw[/ame]

7:30

Interestingly, Tyson's unique pose at the end was inspired by Battling Nelson, who would similarly stand over his conquered KO victims.

 

If true, that strongly suggests that Larry might have beaten the count, depending on how quickly he spoke up. I know Holmes has claimed he said this, but didn't know Mike corroborated that. (I wasn't following boxing too closely by then.)

Give Larry the opportunity to get up and finish the round though, and that would simply have delayed the inevitable. If there had been a fifth round, Tyson's adrenaline would have been going haywire, and Holmes was still trying to move as though he was 28, not 38. When Larry came back successfully in his 40s, he adjusted his approach considerably, appropriating the Foreman template to his own adaptation. (Before their match fell through, Holmes was very open and candid in televised interviews crediting George for showing him how it could be done.)

 

Holmes was out on his feet and would have been unable to rise. Tyson had 2 fisted unorthodox power and good killer instinct something that Shavers and Snipes did not have. Any version of Holmes would have lost to Tyson (because of styles ) unless Holmes was able to avoid Tyson in the danger rounds from 1-10 and this is something I doubt he could do and win. Holmes could not exchange with a pressure fighter such as Tyson,Marciano or Louis IMO

 

I think Tyson-Holmes strongly suggests that Larry, circa 1982 or Shavers I could indeed have succeeded at this, when an old and rusty Holmes came within five seconds and a caught arm in the ropes of actually surviving round four. He could clinch well, something Mike really didn't like, had other good survival skills, and would indeed have played for the late rounds. He was much faster on the recovery in Snipes and Shavers II than he possibly could have been in 1988, and he actually did do better against peak Tyson than Berbick, Ratliff, Stewart, Spinks, Tubbs, Carl Williams, Tillman, Bruno II, Seldon, Mathis, Jr., Savarese and Etienne, despite being older and more poorly prepared than any of them.

As terrific a finisher as Mike was, it still took him 45 seconds between knockdowns two and three to put over the final shot as he was running out of time.

 

He lied flat on his back and made no attempt to get up. He was done. Cortez in this case did a favor for another fighter because had he gotten up he would have taken more punishment before the inevitable knockout.