Could Jack Dempsey beat Frank Bruno?

Oh, really? I didn´t notice it... atsch


seriously, how stupid are you, Clay?

 

Something as subjective as a person's IQ, can be attributed to a variety of environmental factors, and not necessarily inherant ones. Socio economic status for one, can play a big role in a person's ability to test highly on IQ exams. If an individual grows up in an area and under economic conditions where a better education is unavailable, then it will likely effect test scores. Physical potential is something that most people are generally born with. Sure, it can be developed through training, nutrition, etc, but the extent of the potential has to be there to begin with.

 

I was just exposing you for your hypocrisy, that's all.

 

Janitor, here is one aritical that illudes to a study that was done during the 1980's by a scientist named Jon Entine. The artical of course, is written by someone else who refers to his findings. It basically points to the ability of people of Africen descent to produce more hormones and enzymes leading to greater physical ability. I don't know how much validity the artical holds, but this was just one study that I tool 5 minutes to look up.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/00/04/16/reviews/000416.16holtlt.html

Sorry, apparantly the site requires you to log in as a member before viewing the material, but I found the subject on google by entering the terms " are black athletes better? "
There are several articles available and I suggest you read a few, at least for some interesting material, weather you give it merit or not.

 

You Ali- sucker don´t get it, huh? When a poster like Janitor or MDWC would sometimes answer just with a smilie, it wouldn´t be bad. But when a poster like you, who has never written something meaningful or so, just responds with a smilie, it´s OK when someone criticize you...

 

The problem with some here is, that they read too much on things who´re pretty difficult, and where are so many different opinions, etc instead of doing something in practice...

 

Regardless of race-differences factors, real or conjured, when I see the (old) film, I see a Jack Dempsey perfectly the equal of the black Joe Louis in terms of speed, athleticism and power. In fact, white, little Stanley Ketchell floored big Jack Johnson with one shot. Dempsey's color would not disqualify him from destroying the likes of a clumsy, robotic Foreman or chinny Louis (as Schmeling did).

There comes a point where race is just one more factor, along with the rest of your physical and other qualities. As a whole package, Jack Dempsey's record, performance on film and historical mark as those of one of the all-time greatest heavyweight champions. Flawed revisionism cannot eclipse this, nor can it remain unchallenged.

As I have said before, it is exciting that now, thanks to the Internet, the average guy can help shape the historical record because we now have a universal voice sitting in our own bedrooms. But, as Uncle Ben said, "With great power comes great responsibility."

Before we rewrite the historical record by writing off past generations as ignorant, romantic fools, we must accept that those who saw Dempsey and later white and black champions up to and including Ali considered and continued to consider the Mauler was of the greatest fist fighters of all time. First of all, nobody gave him the rank. He earned it. Secondly, that opinion was unmoved almost 100 years later, when they all died out. Were they alive today, Dempsey's contemporaries would hold fast to this view. The advent of Rahman, Byrd and Lennox Lewis would not destroy this belief.

Just because Babe Ruth did not play against blacks does it mean we must trash his achievements. The guy was singlehandedly hitting more home runs during the "dead-ball" era than entire teams. In 100 years of the game, no other player hit more home runs within a 154-game season (steroid nonsense don't count). The Babe must truly be considered, even today, one of the very mightiest players of all time.

Jack Dempsey scored 25 first-round knockouts in 78 fights. He floored a huge man (for those enamored of size) with one textbook left hook in the first round of his championship challenge and showed himself the prototype boxer-puncher with such fluid, fundamentally-correct and, frankly, devastating action in the ring (something even stale film cannot hide), that, at least in my book, the man was truly one of the greats. And, quite frankly, comparing other name heavy champs on film, few of these guys show me anything to compel me to consider Mr. Dempsey a glorified, skinny, white bum.

 

I write more meaningful posts than you, that's for sure.

 

No one is " trashing " Dempsey's acheivements here. This is not what my argument was about.

 

I wouldn´t be so sure, just ask the others here, they should judge this theme, not you and I, or not?

 

I'm well aware you're not exactly trashing them, but your words are that Dempsey's achievements should be seriously questioned.

 

His records and accomplishements? No. His ability to beat athletes of certain later eras? Yes. There is a huge difference. This topic began when some posters so addamately claimed that Dempsey would utterly destroy Frank Bruno without a problem. Could it happen? We'll never know. But I think that there is a lot of merit to the scientific concept that black athletes are often born with greater potential to develop better physical capabilities, and given that Dempsey rarely if ever competed against black opposition, this notion should at least be considered.

That's all I was saying.

 

You ask them, since you're the one who brought it up in the first place.

 

Agreed. In general, regarding better performance of the races in different endeavors, if it looks, walks and quacks like a duck, it probably is.

On other other hand, if Dempsey, regardless of his color, is one of the greatest heavyweight fighters ever, and Bruno isn't, I believe the Mauler could handle him fairly well.

 

Fair enough, but my problem is that Dempsey never tested his greatness against truly great black athletes, and while Bruno was not an all time great, he was certainly competitive with a lot of blacks who were. This is a major difference in my opinion. I simply can't see Jess Williard, Luis Firpo, Billy Miske, or Gunboat Smith being a tougher test than Frank Bruno.

Of course this argument is like shoveling **** against the tide. It never seems to go anywhere.