Could Jack Dempsey have competed in place of Floyd Patterson?

"Pounds...Pounds...Pounds....Pounds....ENOUGH!!!

 

Read a book...do some research...most real boxing historians have Liston at the bottom of the all time list. He beat "Chinney" Floyd Patterson twice in one round in '62 and '63. Then... he QUIT as champion while sitting on his stool against the light hitting Cassius Clay in 1964...then took a DIVE against Ali up in Maine in May 1965. Yeah,...Liston would destroy Dempsey....."HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

 

It’s a weird thing to think people believe Ali would beat Louis and overcome his jab when you watch Norton land on him over and over and over…

 

Liston would destroy Dempsey.

In fact, I would give Patterson the edge over Dempsey. Quicker hands, tighter defense, the hardest puncher Jack would have ever faced.

 

Well it's your time to shine Jim, finally. You shared a common trait with Muhammad Ali!!!!!!!!!!

In other breaking news Tiger Woods knows little about golf, Michael Jordan little about basketball, Pele little about soccer and Spielberg nothing about the film industry.

 

Have read plenty of books, have done my research, have also been in their and done that. I don't know what " real boxing historians " you're quoting from , but must I've read from has Liston as one of the greatest heavyweights in history.
But you have your opinion, I have mine.
That simple.
But one thing is true. For years Liston was avoided by the best fighters of his era. For years Dempsey avoided the best of his....
Prime Dempsey it could be argued wasn't the best heavyweight of his era. Prime Liston that's not even a question. He was.

 

really great stuff guys ... still laughing here way down south

 

Pele didn`t know much about football, he just had incredible balance and skill, Maradonna was a dreadful manager but again had a low center of gravity nothing to do with knowledge about football, football managers and fight trainers know more about their chosen professions than the athletes they guide.

 

If they tagged in Jack Dempsey for Floyd Patterson I'm not sure exactly how things would go, but I don't think it would be dramatically different. I think Floyd was able to win when he was able to find power shots consistently and use his overall speed. I think Jack had a lot of those same characteristics but at a lower level. By the mid 1950s, boxing evolved significantly since Jack's heyday of the 1910s and 20s.

It's interesting but I see it as a speed, technique and power for durability exchange. They're both hard and fast punchers at about the same size. It's a good parallel, both protected fighters who ducked and dodged during their moneymaking primes until they had to fight the fights (Dempsey much moreso). I don't think Dempsey fares any better in most marquee fights. The parallel between Tunney and Ali doesn't hold water for me, as Tunney vs. Bob Foster would be a much more interesting matchup than Tunney vs. Ali. It goes to show how limited very early 20th century HWs were that a LHW and noted duck artist himself could come up and whoop the HW champ (albeit the belt was incredibly dusty during Dempsey's reign). Patterson is a much more refined boxer and I think it would be hard to argue this.

To extend this the other way, I'm pretty sure Patterson would whoop Tunney as well. Floyd would catch him and bury him with a big shot. Tunney wouldn't have a speed edge, if they wanted to "long count" for Tunney against Patterson, they'd have to bring a full hourglass.

Dempsey vs. Liston would be different but I don't think Dempsey would win, but I think he would do a bit better for however long he would last. So Jack would have some success in losses vs. Liston, maybe he doesn't get clipped by Ingo and just takes the series 1-0 or 2-0. I think Chuvalo vs. Dempsey would be a hell of a fight and Chuvalo would give him some serious problems. This would be a hard fight for Jack. Ellis and Quarry both box Jack up, Quarry stops him. Henry Cooper would be a super fun fight that Dempsey probably wins. For what it's worth, head-to-head, Patterson would give Dempsey hell. He wouldn't get found by Dempsey and he would laser punches into Jack's face until he got a dramatic KO. Bonavena would be a handful, but I think it would be a style of fight that would be perfect for Jack and Jack would win. Who knows, though, 60-40 that one. Moore was a bit past it but still had one of his signature performances left in 1958 vs Durelle. Who knows, this would be a tough fight for Jack but winnable. Prime-for-prime, I favor Moore at any weight. Jack Dempsey crushes Rademacher, but if any Pete Rademacher fans have anything to say, I'll listen.

I think resumewise and head-to-head it is difficult to refute that Floyd Patterson is the superior fighter to Dempsey, and given the dubious record of his mob ties and chin, it's interesting to say that I'd favor him over the most historically lauded heavyweight prior to Joe Louis. Even extending out the hypotheticals, I can see Dempsey surviving Liston for longer and not getting clipped by Ingo, but I can also see him losing to Bonavena (but would favor him), and I don't think Jack would reverse the verdicts vs. Quarry--I actually think he'd be stopped.

 

My post went completely over your head, Mark.

As you were.

 

Patterson was awesome. And honestly, getting killed in a round by Liston twice is a possibility for many really good-great heavyweights. I favor Patterson in many matchups because he had the weaponry and movement. I think as boxing evolved and refined, skills and abilities that Patterson had became more important. I think he would hit Baer so clean and so hard that Max would not have a chance to land a windmiller on him. He would probably starch Dempsey fwiw.