Could Jack Johnson have tricked/survived Foreman Zaire?

Johnson beat many huge punchers. That was his meat. 100 years later we have no way to judge how great these punchers were. We do know that Foreman fought two good boxers in Ali and Young and lost going away to both. He is not going to somehow beat a prime ATG boxer who was better than either that Young or that Ali. Prime Johnson would be the best BOXER Foreman ever faced and Foremans track record beating good boxers is not good...in fact it's nonexistent.

 

So did he beat huge punchers or can we not judge how huge punchers were back then? Can't have it both ways.

And nice list of the huge punchers he did beat. Hell of a list.

 

Learn to read Sea. Your posts reek of not living through the Ali years. Nobody except the nubes believe that Ali post a 4 year hiatus was better than a prime Ali who was an active fighter. No one in his corner believed that post exile Ali was better either. You are not a better fighter if you need to lay on the ropes or cover up mid ring (the mirage) to win fights.

 

A prime 1908 Johnson was better than the Ali that fought Foreman pushing 33 .. if you study his career you learn that prior to winning the title he fought many large and talented heavyweights, actually one of the best resumes against size of the pre-70's era .. I think Johnson had the strength, speed and style to tire George out and beat him .. it is actually one of the styles that matches up best for him ...

 

Wow. A lot of guys favouring Jack over Foreman! I just can't see it.

In my opinion Johnson's style is not all that and Foreman is levels above the vast majority of Johnson's competition.

Maybe I've been watching the wrong JJ footage?

 

That includes you Mc.

 

facts...

 

What about Langford?

 

I see you status changed. No more trolling others here I hope

 

He's impressive vs a 5 foot 7 inch 168 pound Tommy Burns. But most of the rest of the footage is not impressive.

No way he'd stand up to Foreman.

 

in fact i believe that 74 ali was much better than prime johnson, and i like jack a lot

 

Having read other related threads where a relatively modern boxer is faced off with an 19th to early 20th century opponent it appears that the same problem repeatedly surfaces. The old-time boxer is usually endowed with technical skills that far outstrip the modern boxer - skills that have lost since been lost in the sands of time.

Then when a person searches for surviving film footage of that vastly skilled boxer they almost always come away with a feeling of massive disappointment as the old-timer usually looks rather crude and basic. 'No! That is the wrong conclusion to make' you are inevitably told. ' You need to learn more about the sport of boxing - especially its history. You are missing the subtle nuances that made that boxer so special. Not only that but the video footage that we have is very limited - so we are not seeing the best of these fighters.' Instead we should perhaps not trust our eyes but should instead take on board the first-hand accounts and fight reports instead. 'Jack Johnson was the greatest defensive heavyweight boxer of all time!' You blink and after being suitably chastized for your ignorance you read those reports and begin to marvel at this great. Inevitably however you return again to those videos and although you are now persuaded that they must be true, after all so many people cannot have lost their senses - yet on a repeat watching that suspicion returns.

 

Fleischer who watched from ringside all the hwt champions from Johnson to Ali stated:

"The old timers were experts regarding the finer points of the game.....blocking, parrying, feinting, slipping." He continued: "At one time every major city had multiple boxing gyms all containing many excellent trainers". "It is always pointed out that every sport has progressed however this is not true with boxing"

I believe the main issue when watching old fight films is two fold....the quality of the film masks the subtle moves. A great example of this is Dempsey and the opinion of most on here that he had primitive skills. Then Rez posts a slow downed series of clips that showed Dempsey slipping 7-9 consecutive punches from a fighter the quality of Tunney. Secondly today's fans are used to watching low skill range fighting where it's all about keeping an opponent at arms length and there are no parries, slipping, nothing complex.

 

Thanks Perry for that. Perhaps what I need to do is see if I can find any analysis-type videos, similar to the one that you mentioned about Dempsey, to see if it can break down Johnson's skills. I will go and have a look at youtube.