Could John L Sullivan throw down in a street fight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mr. magoo, Aug 21, 2008.


  1. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    50,950
    24,902
    Jan 3, 2007
    I don't think any footage is available of the great Sullivan, and I've read very little about him. He did however fight during the bare knuckle era, and probably fought a lot of brawlers, which ended up using some wrestllng techniques.

    What type of streetfighter do you think he was, and could he perhaps fight successfully in a brawl with a young gang banger in the Bronx or on the south side of Chicago today? Could he have successfully evaded an arrest by a fully trained police officer, or battled a proffessionally trained military officer?

    What do you think?
     
    cross_trainer likes this.
  2. lfsdan

    lfsdan Active Member Full Member

    528
    0
    Feb 11, 2005
    Well he was most certainly a bad ass mother****er. If weapons weren't apart of the occasion I'm sure he could throw down with any street fighter past or present. His toughness can't be overrated.
     
  3. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    25,406
    9,358
    Jul 15, 2008
    Sullivan was a street fighter, most likely the toughest of any champion. He fought bare fisted. He wrestled and kicked. He was known for head butting in street fights ... he was an animal ...read Adam Pollack's book on him for some info ...
     
  4. Bill1234

    Bill1234 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,314
    495
    Jan 28, 2007
    I think John L Sullivan could duke it out with the best of 'em out in the parking lot or in the alley as long as there are no weapons.
     
  5. heehoo

    heehoo TIMEXICAH! Full Member

    3,763
    13
    Feb 16, 2008
    Well, I'd say so, considering that

    A) He announced that he could "lick any sonofabitch alive", and

    B) He had to fight his way out of practically every saloon he went to. He had a target on his back that came with declaring you could whip anyone's ass.

    I would have liked to see how he would have done against Langford or Jeanette in a street fight if he never wanted to fight them professionally.
     
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,127
    45,408
    Feb 11, 2005
    Having read what I've read, I suppose he could kick just about any HW champ's ass in a street fight. He was an animal, and that is not entirely derisive or laudatory. A bad man.
     
    cross_trainer likes this.
  7. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,714
    3,455
    Jan 6, 2007
  8. Axe

    Axe Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,013
    3
    Jan 23, 2005
    Sullivan would have been just as good in the street as he was in the ring...if not better.
     
  9. abraq

    abraq Active Member Full Member

    1,376
    19
    Sep 17, 2007
    Here is an interesting anectode from the life of the Great John L.

    From accounts of him, John L Sullivan loved to move around with his friends and visit taverns and bar rooms. His favourite line was "I can lick any sonofabitch alive" and when he entered a drinking place he would always declare "When John L drinks, everyone drinks". Needless to say, no one dared to disobey his command. Except on one occasion.

    One day John L entered a drinking room with his cohorts and made the above declaration. As usual, everyone complied except for one huge man who sat there drinking (now hold your breaths) milk!!! John L confronted him and ordered that the man join him in drinking wine or whatever John L was drinking. But the man refused. John L demanded to know why. The reply was "because I am drinking milk". The great John L, Heavyweight Champion of the World, eyed the man over and decided not to make an issue out of it. John L and all others drank their alcoholic drinks, the man drank his milk.

    That man was Louis Cyr, then reputed to be the "Strongest Man Alive".
    It is reported that the two became friends.
     
  10. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    He'd run his ass off if he found himself in the Bronx.

    All those subhuman*, weird, people with black skin; he'd never fight one of them scary mofos.



    *Not my words, but his
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,675
    28,996
    Jun 2, 2006
    When Sullivan retired ,in 1892 ,Jeanette was 13 years old ,and Langford 9,I think you have them confused with Peter Jackson,whom Sullivan refused to fight.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,675
    28,996
    Jun 2, 2006
    Sullivan was known for his right hand power and speed of delivery ,thats normally all you need in a street fight ,power and speed .BE FIRST!
     
  13. Bill1234

    Bill1234 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,314
    495
    Jan 28, 2007
    Sullivan was a great street fighter, no doubt, but he also grew up in times where you would duke it out on the corner and later on that night having a beer with the man and think nothing of it, now he would probably get sued and be in jail or would have gotten stabbed or shot by now. I wonder how he would do if he was jumped in an alleyway by say...5 men.
     
  14. AREA 53

    AREA 53 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,466
    83
    Apr 10, 2006
    ( You might find this interesting, but perhaps taken witha pinch of Salt ?)

    The Night Longhair Jim Kayoed the Great John L.

    During his transcontinental prize fighting tour, which lasted from September 28, 1883 to May 23, 1884, John L. Sullivan met a total of 59 challengers. He offered them $1000 if they could stay four rounds with him, None of them did.
    The "Boston Strong-boy" soundly whipped everyone of them. However, there was a confrontation Sullivan had that you wont find in the record books. It was personal, rather then professional.

    In Ft. worth, Texas the great John L. was celebrating his most recent victory which occurred in Waco. The local boy gave him a decent fight, and Sullivan didn't have to carry the lad too much to put on a good show for the crowd. Needless to say, his method of celebrating consisted of going on a drunk and harrahing the town. In addition to the Sullivan celebrants, the streets of Ft. Worth were filled with merrymakers from the volunteer fire department. The firemen were commemorating some sort of anniversary.
    Sullivan reeled along the broadwalks of Ft. Worth and defied anyone to stand in his way. People approaching from the opposite direction had the choice of colliding with the burly pugilist or stepping out into the street. In all cases they chose the latter alternative.

    Presently a young mother with babe in arms came within six inches of bumping into Sullivan, she hesitated for a moment, expecting him to give way and allow her to pass, sober, the prize fighter would have doffed his hat and graciously let the women go by. Instead, he just stood there and refused to move. In his cups the champ could be quite abusive. The lady looked up at him disapprovingly and then stepped out into the street.

    T.I. Courtright, who ran a detective agency, arrived on the scene just in time to see this display of ungentlemanly behavior, Courtright was a volunteer fireman, gunfighter and former marshall of Ft.Worth. He was known to his contemporaries by the sobriquet, "Longhair Jim." The detective placed his left hand on Sullivan's shoulder and asked that he apologize to the lady. Brushing the hand from his shoulder, Sullivan turned to face Courtright and bellowed, "Now just who are you ? You can go…."

    Before he could complete his invitation for Longhair Jim to visit a warmer climate the ex marshall had reached in his pocket, slipped on a pair of brass knuckles and delivered a stunning blow to the champ's nose.
    Sullivan dropped to his knees, perhaps due more to the liquor he had consumed than the effects of the punch. His nose was bleeding profusely as he struggled to his feet. Actually he was more dumbfounded the hurt. Courtright once again requested that he apologize. The prizefighter grumbled " I'll not apologize." This time the detective landed an uppercut to his chin. He slammed up against a store front and slumped to the broadwalk his bowler rolling into the gutter. Longhair Jim offered to see the lady and her child safely home. She accepted and they went on there way.

    The next afternoon Sullivan wasn't sure what had happened, but certain "Friends" and assorted hangers-on were glad to fill in the details and offered to point out the gent who had "lowered the boom" on him.
    Anxious to witness another confrontation, Sullivan's sycophants directed him to Courtright. The champ threw back his shoulders and strode toward the detective. Longhair Jim braced himself, he could see that Sullivan was cold sober. Things could go a lot different this afternoon. In preparation for the expected onslaught he reached in his pocket and fingered the brass knuckles, at the same time he let his left hand go to his gun butt, just in case.
    The pugilist stopped within two feet of Courtright, his had started to move upward, but instead of throwing a punch he offered it in a gesture of friendship. The detective was still a little uncomfortable as he placed his hand in Sullivan's, Courtright's hands were long, slim and delicate, while the prize fighter had tough brine-soaked paws. The champ could have crushed the detective's hand and delivered a smashing left to his head. His fears proved to be unwarranted. Sullivan was sincere and admitted that he deserved what he got the night before.

    As Sullivan turned to walk away Longhair Jim heaved a sigh of relief. When the Great John L. reached the other side of the street he looked over at the crowd that had gathered round Courtright, and shouted, " I remain as always your warm and personal friend, John L. Sullivan."

    ========================================
    Taken From Real West Magazine Feb 1970 Issue: Article Listed Reference Sources - recollections of Lulu Courtright Hart, daughter of T.I. Courtright, and Mrs. Henry Meyerhoff, Granddaughter of T.I. Courtright. - Files of Fort Worth, Galveston and Waco newspapers.
    =======================================
    N.B. It Seems Longhair Jim may not of been quite the paragon of virtue he appeared here, it seems he was something of a noted gunman with allegedly more then a few, Perhaps unnecessary, kills to his credit, he apparently had a fair bit of swagger about him, and appeared to enjoy his reputation, his demise came about in an Hollywood (Peckinpah'esque ?) style shootout in fort worth in 1887, it seems Luke Short another noted Gunman of the day, and friend of the Earps took over a saloon, and Longhair Jim apparently tried to force Short to take his "insurance" (protection) policy against trouble, Short, as mentioned, a noted gunman in his own right told him to "Go to Hell"….well, when two fearless men, with perhaps reputations to uphold wouldn’t budge the inevitable happened, a gunfight in the middle of the street, apparently Shorts first shot took off Courtrights thumb on his right hand, Courtright tried a Border Roll and Short plugged him in the chest, …and so ended the Story and life of Longhair Jim Courtright.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------P.S. It is not recorded whether John L. ever did subsequently apologize to the Lady he insulted, anytime afterwards, but it does raise the interesting thought that perhaps, in those times, even the Great John L. and his fellow top pugilists had to be a mite cautious before they started offering out all and sundry "SOB's" in case they happen to upset some little skinny 9 stone physco, who just happens to have a Sam Colt equaliser strapped to his hip !? interesting times….
     
  15. amhlilhaus

    amhlilhaus Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,840
    12
    Mar 24, 2005
    john l. fighting a 'gang banger' from the bronx? none of those guys fight anymore do they?

    as for street fights, there's always someone out there who's tougher, but trained fighters are better than most men they'd run into.