Could Larry Holmes or Rocky Marciano beat Deontay Wilder?

Holmes could be hit with right hands at times but Wilder's is most often telegraphed and often wiiiiiiide.

Saying Shavers wouldn't have laid a glove on Fury involves huge speculation.

 

Ortiz wouldn't have beaten Holyfield. I'm also not sure he beats all of Holmes opponents. He hasn't proved that much at all really. He hits hard and looks good but his career is a bit thin imo.

Holmes and Ortiz is closer to meters i think. Different class of fighter entirely for me. Ortiz would be awkward for sure but he is not in Holmes class at all.

 

ortiz is not fit enough to fight in larrys time.

 

You were talking about the right hand.

 

209.


“You’re looking at a guy who weighed in at 212,” said Wilder, who fought Fury to a 12-round split draw. “And then, when I got dressed in the back of the room, and came in with the official weigh-in, with the people that weighed me, I came in at 209. I couldn’t believe my weight dropped even more, you know, after I weighed in. You know, that kind of bothered me as well, too, because I’m not the type of guy – I’ve always said I’d rather be the part than look the part.”

https://www.*******.com/wilder-i-weighed-209-pounds-gave-up-50-plus-pounds-fury--134355

 

So was Hearns and Paul Williams.
They didn’t skip any weight classes because they were tall and long.

Ever since Wilder arrived at the top, people want to discard weight in favor of height and reach. Le Modernista baby, wooo!! Anything for that sweet sweet evolution.

 

Having lived through the 80’s, and recently watching and scoring some 80’s fights this is not a fair or accurate statement. From Tubbs, Spoon to Page and others fatigue, stamina and conditioning plagued many of the top tier fighters of the era.

Now I am not saying Ortiz would be the cream of the crop outside of Holmes, but I don’t think his fitness level would be the main reason for or against his success.

 

I disagree. Ortiz' lack of fitness would clearly hamper his ability to win a title. Just like Tubbs, Witherspoon, and Page's lack of fitness caused them to lose or fail to regain the title. The bottom line is: lack of fitness occurs across all decades, but, it almost always results in sub par performance. None of the men you mentioned performed well on nights when they showed up in poor condition. Page, for example was half the fighter he was capable of being when he showed up out of condition. Even a great fighter like Mike Tyson (although admittedly this was very late in his career) got stopped by a journeyman like Danny Williams because he wasn't in shape to go more than 1 or 2 rounds. Tyson was blasting Williams all around the ring, but, just ran out of gas and quit. As Vince Lombardi used to say: "Fatigue makes cowards of us all."

 

speaking of thoe who reached title level and thus fought 15 rounders, if you had to fight a 15 round fight, you would be, by definition, fitter than someone who has maxxed at 12 rounders.

Much less the fact that top level guys in their 20s are obviously fitter than a 38 year old man.

 

Idealy a guy in his 20’s is fitter than a 38 year old man....but if you go to the FOTW thread and watch 25 y/o Witherspoon vs Snipes then watch the 39 y/o Witherspoon vs Mercer...tell me if he had better fitness conditioning or stamina at 25 or 39.

 

I don’t think I said he would be a champion, but he would likely win a strap like most of those guys outside of Holmes. My response was to the statement “Ortiz was not fit enough to fight during Larrys time”....are you saying he was not fit/good enough to fight in Larrys time? If not I am not sure where we disagree.

IMO Ortiz is not a great in any era but good enough to be a challenger fringe contender in them and in the last 40 years likely good enough to pick up a strap even if short lived.

 

39 year old wither didnt fight in 80s, and wouldnt be in ranked type 15 rounders since he wouldnt be good enough to do so.


i am not sure why u are arguing against ths. the age factor of Ortiz kills your argument anyway without even considering longer fights.