Could Leonard beat a prime Hagler?

So he was mentally more faded? Or physically? Or both? Or more faded only if he wasn't rematching SRL?

 

Well, that account differs from the way I see things only very slightly.
It's almost what I've been saying.

I believe if he had felt he could beat Hagler in '82 or '83 he would have fought him.
The reasons for his retirement in '82 are unclear. He said he lacked motivation then, and the eye thing. Fair enough. But he also used the Hagler fight speculation to boost his " special announcement" event, and used it to undermine or needle Hagler, apparently.
If Hagler was nothing to do with anything, why did Leonard make a big deal out of it ?
I think you hit the nail on the head when you say in '86 it becomes a "possible feat" (in leonard's mind).
I believe Leonard's motivation would have been that high earlier had he believed beating Hagler was possible.
And the way he beat Hagler (by "nicking" it) only confirms my belief.

I think you're pretty much spot-on in your post.

 

It's how I look at it. Prime for prime, Hagler should win comfortably. What worries me though, is that in 1987, Hagler should win comfortably.

Here's the crux of the issue, in my mind at least. Hagler fought his way up through the ranks, got shafted against Antuofermo and then was an excellent champion to go with being an excellent fighter. He was blue collar, identifiable with boxing fans who like to see rags to riches stories. Let's be honest, would you go to see a film about Pretty Boy Floyd or a film about Jerry Quarry or a Mickey Ward?

Leonard being a media darling immediately draws strong reaction. Many fans, I know, intensely dislike him "because of the politricks he played". "The Hagler fight should've been 12 rounds", "It should've been a smaller ring." etc. Here's the thing ... Hagler was the champion, was the naturally bigger man, and more importantly, he knew the number of rounds, he knew the size of the ring ... why did he agree to Leonard's conditions? He wanted the gravy train that comes with fighting Leonard, so I don't see why people would complain that it was 12 rounds or a bigger ring.

When you're the star or you're the power player, you always negotiate in your best interests. To discredit Leonard for such things, you have to be be unbiased. You have to discredit SRR for the way he negotiated, Ali, Roy Jones, Tyson ... history's full of boxing politics, Leonard isn't the first nor the last and lest people forget, Hagler wasn't tricked into fighting him and he certainly wasn't tricked into fighting the first four rounds the way that he did.

For those that feel like Leonard had it all handed to him ... he beat four of the very best fighters of the last 30 years, four of the finest fighters in all history IMO. Arguably the best defensive fighter in Benitez. Arguably the best lightweight and a head to head force above that too in Duran (look at the Palomino performance and tell me Duran wasn't as good at 140 and even in Montreal, he was slipping Leonard's flurries on the inside and in the pocket :yikes), the welterweight monster that is Hearns and the MW legend that is Hagler. Whether people like it or not, this man proved his mettle and more inside the ring, irrespective of questionable tactics outside the ring (and yes, I don't like the timing of some of his 'retirements' and how long Hearns had to wait for the rematch either).

 

I think Leonard actually has said that he didn't believe he could beat Hagler in '82-'83. I've at least seen quotes to that effect on this forum. And I also think it would have been one bridge too many at that time. But there were plenty of other challenges around at that time. Those divisions were quite stacked back then.

I think it probably was a combination of things. The damaged retina and fading desire to name the most obvious. The fact that he really didn't want to turn pro to start with shows that his heart wasn't quite in it like it was for others. And by this time he'd already made a shitload of money and then came the injury... Maybe it just took a couple of years for the flame to start flickering again, and then he sees that Hagler is fading and feels that he really can pull it off. The engine gets going again. That's my take on it.

 

I liked Marvin in the army-based guerrilla war-fare action hero movies he made in the Phillipines and Italy.

'Brutal Bonanza' is actually pretty good.

He made tons more money.

 

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Everyone is wrong except for me and my friends, we alone are in sole possention of the 'facts'

Frankly I cannot fathom how Leonard joyboys can be tricked so effortlessly, do you fall for the same bull**** from Haye and Floyd?

 

What about his brittle hands?

Do you count Floyds win over JMM as a good win?

 

Have you watched these bouts?

Marvin beat Vito, beat Duran and slipped vs Roldan.

 

MR. UN,,,,,,,,,,,

Nice find,,,,,,,,

Since Marvin is living in Italy, and made several films there.
He could have possibly been the 4th Corleone brother,,,,Marvaluce'

His responsibility, to watch over the Corleone Family interests in Italy.

 

I'm starting to wonder if Leonard would of got more kudos if Hagler had got the decision!

 

Scorecards from bout;

Juan Guerra,,,,,,118-110 Leonard (10-2-0 in Rounds)
Lou Filippo,,,,,,,,115-113 Hagler (7-5-0 in Rounds)
Dave Moretti,,,,,115-113 Leonard (7-5-0 in Rounds)

What did Juan Guerra see (or not see) that everyone else on this planet missed.

 

Maybe a hefty sack of bribery cash. :think