Could Leonard beat a prime Hagler?

Please, please, please, couldn't you explain what you mean by that. Just to give me a laugh.

 

Yeah really.. His boy was favored to be Leonard's undertaker and ended up losing, despite having the upper hand... Now, he makes up excuses and calls us the " battered wives club. "

 

Yes:yep

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excellent discription indeed

I've waited to see if one person would come up with the one glaring obvious answer as to how Leonard would approach this fight & why!!! No one yet has come anywhere near...as expected

Just a load of the same old useless ink & simpering self indulgent ego shmoozing back & forth & piles of shite about Leonards SPEED??? What ****in SPEED!!! Are these 1/2 brains on here expecting Leonard to be the run away dog of the Duran II fight or saying Leonards going to razzle dazzle Hagler with these much vaunted super dooper combo's & retire unscathed

The Kalule fight shows just how difficult it would be for Leonard to last past 12 rounds max as he was gassing out big time by the 9th in that fight & juxtapose Haglers persistent slicing & dicing jabs & Leonards lack of speed & stamina at Middleweight for 15 rounds & it's an obvious outcome that Leonard eventually gets run down mid 2 late. The hagler of the Fully Obel I & that Sibbo fights was absolute superb, a boxing master indeed & oh so economical.

The Hagler of 82 was not the favorite with the scribes..LEONARD WAS!!! & for that reason you would see Leonard taking it too Hagler & attempting to assert as expected his ring superiority & generalship on the underdog Hagler so setting the rythem of this fight as he'd want it & be expected to do against a defensive counter puching box/fighter such as Hagler was then & Hagler would not have been under any real severe mental pressure to take it too Leonard as in 87.

Just go watch the Leonard/Bonds fight & Kalule fights & it's evident to even a blind man that Leonard could & would have been only have been able to fight the way he's always fought & thats to plant his feet early & try & take Hagler out of there as soon as possible. He has'nt the speed to run around the ring bull**** & give rounds away as he did with Hearns & Marvin has the speed in his countering to match & surpass anything Leonard has in the way of his so called speed at Middleweight. Leonard is SLICED & DICED & after 6 rounds it's going to turn into a real slow typical early Marvin style slasher job. Leonard has absolutly nothing in his arsenal that can affect Hagler & Leonards going to find it impossible to avoid Haglers laser counters.

Leaonard goes after Hagler from the 1st ring a ding, he has no other option, he's the big time favorite with the bookies & scribes & what with his ego he'd even believe it himself & pay the price by getting chopped up. All this shite about Leonards SPEED what a load of joyboy parrat yapping crap for the "battered wives" on here. Show me a fight with this phenom speed by Leonard above 147.....yer can't!!! it don't exist!!! Never did & NEVER WOULD HAVE:deal

Southpaw Larry U.S Bonds went 10 with Leonard at 147 & at the end of the 2nd round Dundee said to Leonard "You do know that you've got a stiff in front of you don't you" Hagler would wipe Leonard out & Leonard knew that & that would be the end of the Leonard $$$$$$ brand so he bugged out as the press & boxing community in general all agreed that if he would'nt re-match Hearns then all roads led to Hagler & the popular concensus with the scribes back then was that Leonard would win as Hagler did'nt have that many friends in the media & was not looked at as superstar material, just game & workman like, no $$$$ to be made outer him for the fawning crows that followed Leonard....

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...he could just go to work as he normally did. Chop/slice/chop/slice/chop/slice & Leonards gone. no where to run & no where to hide over 15 rounds for Leonard & thats why the **** ran away:smoke

 

No way am I reading all that... Just looking at the the name "Duranimal" tells me all I need to know.

 

Duranimal went over the edge,,,,,,,,kind of like Colonel Kurtz in 'Apocalypse Now'

But brilliant writings.

 

Well a battered wife get hit by her parnter and treated like **** but stays because of the promise that it will not happen again and that everything will be great and that he will change.

The club is also open to Haye, Floyd and Mundane (for the Aussies) fans.

 

Nobody really watches those 81 to 83 fights of Marvin when he had legs. He'd have no problem closing the gap. They watch the later efforts and it's knid of like the way Ali is measured based on the Shavers fight. Or lets use the version of Leonard with his deteriorating skills that got ko'd by a former 130 pounder in Camacho, of all middleweights. How's that guy do with Marvin? Earlier versions of a fighter has a different gameplan they have the skills to implement. Later on the wear and tear make the results change.

And I agree Leonard was fast but his footwork was more along the lines of flashy. He'd resort to it and flick some jabs and win on the scorecards. But he was more of a cutie pie than a dancer.

But the big thing is Marvin is going to walk through those punches and had the footspeed to stay right on top of Leonard and remain in punching range. When they fought he could no longer do that. And those straight as an arrow punches had become looping punches. He used to throw darts. And his footwork had slowed up a ton and that was not a factor against Hearns and Mugabi, but it was going to be an issue with a Leonard.

 

I still don't get it. Suppose I just haven't spent enough nights awake figuring it out, as you have clearly have.

 

You read every single WORD did'nt you:hey & then you ran away because you sugarbabies just can't handle the TRUTH:smoke

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM[/ame]

 

Duranimal does bring up a good point about the Kalule fight, where Leonard put on a great display of his offensive talent and was able to do so because of kalule's unusually low level of punching power.

However he has to work hard and gets countered a lot with straight and short punches, especially to the body.

It's obvious he won't be able to generate anywhere near that level of offense fighting someone with the far superior power and durability of Hagler, who possesses a similar southpaw textbook technical style, with better hand/foot speed and equal straight punching/countering accuracy.He'll be the one getting worn down and probably knocked out circa 6th to 10th, would be a vastly entertaining fight until then, mind you.

I also don't see him being able to fight such a safety first rest-filled fight against a peak Hagler as he was able to the more flat footed, lesser skilled 87 version.He fights like that and Hagler has the elegant in and out footwork, jab and footspeed to close him down and dictate the exchanges.Leonard would be fighting to "give a good account" survive and pinch rounds more than outright win.


I'd say Leonard's best approach would be to limit the movement and fight his more usual patient box-fighting style as seen against Benitez, hoping he can get into Hagler's head, have him oblige to a slower paced ring-centre fight and slightly out-ring general/outspeed him in the process.Then slowly bring in more movement as the fight goes on.He won't be able to fight at ring centre all fight against the bigger man, even in a slower paced fight, so getting the balance right is key.

The thing that puts Leonard at a disadvantage against bigger top-notch boxer-punchers is him lacking much of a good effective back-foot fencing game.makes it tougher to slow fights down and stay out of range.He's not going to fare too well in small rings, so him being such a superstar by the time he fought at middleweight and able to dictate terms was important i feel.

 

Some very interesting, well thought-out points here.

I'm not so sure about this. Granted he didn't show it too often, but that was also because his offense made him better suited to a more aggressive approach against WWs. I think he showed some nice moves in the rematch against Duran and, especially, against Hagler. Yes, Duran's head probably wasn't screwed on right and, yes, Hagler was faded, but they were still both quality opponents.

I think it's reasonable to claim that no version of Leonard could have bedazzled a prime Hagler in the same manner, though. So a kind of medium approach, as you suggest, would probably be the best option.

Interesting to note is that Leonard was originally planning to stay in the pocket with Marvin, since he felt that his superior speed would see him prevail. But just a couple of days before the fight he got KO'd in sparring and changed his plans.

 

It means that your idol treats you like a fool, with great contempt and you guys eat it up and come back for more, with the proclamation that he is the greatest, with crap like he was green for the first Duran bout but then was Prime in their 2nd meeting, that he fought the wrong fight in the first one when himself and the guys in his corner don't even sprout that crap etc.....

 

Are you an adolescent?

 

My boy never got floored by a jab from a former light hitting SFW, who was also past prime, then KO'd.

 

Here's my take on it.

Scenario 1: The Leonard of the Hagler fight vs prime Hagler. I can't really see Leonard winning this against a faster, sharper Hagler considering how close their actual fight was. Over 15, he does well to last the distance.

Scenario 2: Leonard, without suffering a detached retina, moves up to face Hagler in '82. There are many unknowns here. How would he carry that weight and how motivated was he at this time? Assuming he's fully motivated I'd probably say he could beat Hagler, but would make Marvin the clear favourite.

Scenario 3: Leonard purposefully moves toward the fight over a couple of years. He first has a couple of fights at 154, then one or two tune-up fights at 160 before facing Hagler in late '84 or early '85. This one calls for a LOT of speculation, but, hey, that's what we do, right? Here it's tighter, but this version of Hagler has perhaps passed his prime? Anyway, a very close fight IMO assuming both are fully up for it.