Could Lyle Have Taken Title From Patterson?

Nobody saw Ingo beating Eddie Machen so much easier than joe Frazier, floyd Patterson or even Sonny Liston were able to either. And in being the first to knockout Patterson...something only Liston was able to do afterwards...must show that Ingo always had something special about him.

Sure there are a lot of unanswered questions about Ingo... but it is not just Ingo who leaves unanswered questions. Patterson fought his best fight beating Ingo and was probably never the same again. Yet he went on all the way to 1972 remaining the third or forth best active fighter in the division compeating well outside of his own era. How good could Pattterson have been had he never been knocked out by Ingo?

How good could Ingo have become had he never have been knocked out by Patterson?

 

Patterson wins if he fights smart and paces himself. Lyle had an underrated jab and could actually box and win rounds. People think he was just the Dillian Whyte/Samuel Peter of the 70's based on his infamous brawls with the big punchers of his era, but that is far from the case. Lyle was a great body puncher (look at the nasty bruses he left in poor Bugner) and knew how to save his energy for the later rounds.

Having said all that, Patterson has faster hands, higher ring IQ, and the perfect punch to slip through the guard of a taller big guy: the gazelle punch. I see Patterson getting rocked, maybe dropped once or twice but rallying back to win the majority of rounds and maybe even stop Lyle late (by around the 9th or so) or get the decision. Lyle was not a great finisher and struggled with guys who had good ring IQ.

 

I just think that once a big puncher had Floyd in trouble that he couldn't fight well and got knocked out.

 

That may be so, but Lyle has vastly better combos, and had many good punches in either hand. I was thinking more of Lyle being stronger overall. He seems like he could really manhandle a guy if he wanted to.

 

True, but Oscar Ringo Bonavena hurt Floyd Patterson on Feb 14 1872, but Floyd won by unanimous decision.

 

I didn't mean that Patterson didn't take a knockdown well, he did. I also don't mean that Quarry and Bonavena weren't powerful either. But I was thinking of really explosive punchers like Liston and Johansson. You probably like Patterson-Bonavena, huh? cuz Floyd gets floored and wins.

 

This is a valid point but Patterson beat his share of big punchers (Archie Moore, Henry Cooper, Ingo x2) and those guys were more skillful than Lyle. Either way, I see your point and would have loved to see them fight.

 

I certainly agree. Patterson was VERY powerful and could knock out some big hitters. I just tend to think Floyd was a bit fragile and wouldn't do well against a much larger and very powerful opponent who was also a good finisher. I think this would be interesting considering how wild both men could be in the ring.

 

Henry Cooper ? Henry was was smaller than Lyle but in terms of one shot power, I'd say Cooper was the harder puncher.

 

i wasn't talking about Cooper

 

I think Lyle is a great match for the post Ali 1 Patterson who had such a terrific record. This version of Floyd was a real ring General who fought each fight on his own terms, at his pace and to his strengths.
Lyle would struggle to pin Patterson in the early going as Floyd would stay on the move, popping and getting away. He certainly wouldn't allow himself to get drawn into the clinches.
I can really see a gassing Lyle wobbling all over the place in the last 2 or 3 here with Floyd maybe even stopping him.

 

I thought the question was who Floyd knocked out who had Lyle's power ?

 

I simply cannot fathom Patterson stopping a guy that large and tough. He never did you know. Johansson was the biggest fighter and the biggest name he ever beat and knocked out, and I think he was only 6 feet tall.

 

That wasn't the exact question. We were naming the most powerful guys Floyd knocked out, which did have some bearing in relation to the Lyle debate.

 

Lyle was certainly big and tough but Patterson had real smarts. Ron wasn't terribly quick and was never a great finisher.
All about opinions Billy. This is certainly a good fight though mate.