Could Lyle Have Taken Title From Patterson?

good assessment

 

I think Lyle wins anywhere from 5-8 rounds. Too much power, and I don't think Floyd hurts him.

 

I’d argue that getting knocked out by a pedestrian one-trick-pony like Ingo was probably just what Patterson needed to get his attention and to accept reality: he had weak punch resistance.

(I knew a pretty good club fighter back in the day, he fought a few big names, but for a while every time he stepped up he got knocked out early; he didn’t have the chin for it and he wanted to trade because he was in love with his offense. His trainer was able to sit him down after an early knockout loss and have a heart-to-heart and say ‘you don’t have the chin to do it the way you want to do it, you need to face that.’ And turned him into a slick boxer — after that he went the distance with some good guys and beat a few guys who weren’t necessarily contenders but were better fighters than he would have been able to beat doing it his old way.)

The fragility issue with Floyd of course cropped up time and again (hello Sonny) but he adjusted enough to trade less often and be smarter about engaging. If it wasn’t Ingo, it would have been some other lesser light.

Nobody ever likes to mention this fact, but Floyd’s best years post-title, when you can argue he really had his best run of sustained success, came after he fired Cus D’Amato. (No, Kevin Rooney was not around to replace him.) I wonder if a change of trainer earlier might have helped him avoid losing to Ingo (they would have only fought once, presumably, if Floyd won) and at least put up a less underwhelming performance against Sonny Liston.

Cus only knew one way, really, and wasn’t great at game-planning or adjusting. It was his system and that’s how you fought no matter the opponent. I think Patterson became better-rounded and more of a thinking-man’s fighter post-D’Amato.

On the topic, I don’t think Ron Lyle necessarily would beat Patterson but he certainly could beat Floyd. If he catches him, Floyd goes down. Then it’s down to whether he recovers before the onslaught. Odds are he wouldn’t. I don’t need to debate where Lyle’s power ranks, but it’s clear he had some and if Pete “I’m an Amateur” Rademacher can put Floyd down it’s probable Lyle could keep him there.

 

He might've faired better against Young had he done so.

 

Instead of looking at how Patterson did against Liston for a possible Lyle fight, I think it'd be more appropriate to look at how he did against Chuvalo or Bonavena. They were both on the level of a Lyle as far as size and strength and skill and had something of a punch. I think Liston is a cut above Lyle, Chuvalo and Bonavena.

 

Pete Rademacher was an Olympic gold medalist.

 

He deserved the Ellis decision in my opinion.

 

I don’t care if won the Nobel Prize. When he fought Floyd he had zero professional experience. No business being in the ring fighting for the heavyweight title at that time. Much less knocking him down.

Which you already knew.

What in Pete’s record indicates that he was an above-average puncher?

 

i'm relieved

 

Just the gold medal.

 

I'm glad you aren't constipated

 

I think a guy stops being a “one trick pony” when the “one trick” works on the best two heavyweights in the world..who had never been knocked out before.

Knocking out Machen and Patterson back to back when he did was close to Foreman knocking out both Frazier and Norton when he did. There literally wasn’t more anyone could have done to score amazing wins at that time.

Floyd went over a good bit. He was caught airborne because of his leaping style. The fact is, Sonny Liston was really the only other guy to truly demolish him like Ingo had. So the Swede is either on Listons level for power or he was the greatest fluke the sport ever saw...since he also flattened Machen.

If Floyd was really that fragile he never would have gotten past cooper, Quarry, Ellis, Bonavena and Chuvalo.

This is a fair point actually. In many ways Patterson outlasted both Ingo and Liston as an elite fighter. But perhaps this is only in hindsight? A few eras had to pass before a proper assessment could be made on the later era Floyd fought on into.

 

I'd favor Patterson. Lyle has a punchers chance.

 

Like I said, he was an amateur. An accomplished amateur, but if we’re going to start handing out title shots to people for winning the Olympics we’ll have a lot of gold medalists starting their careers 0-1 and ending up journeymen, like Rademacher.

What is his PROFESSIONAL record against professional boxers — other than knocking down Patterson (like virtually everyone else) — says he was a puncher? Nothing.