Could Marciani carry Holmes jock strap? Holmes vs Marciano

That is your opinion and ,like most that you hold ,it is an erroneous one.

 

But it is not an erroneous one, and if it is, then it is an erroneous opinion held by most historians and trainers.

 

Explain the advantages.You yourself, explain to me why the swarmer is at an advantage?

 

A classic boxer essentially tries to work at range where possible, to outbox his opponent with his superior technique. A swarmer will crowd the boxer inside his optimum working range, smothering his punches, overwhelming him with his own punch output, keeping him under constant pressure, and generally disrupting everything that the boxer is trying to do. While a slugger or a boxer puncher needs to wait for the classic boxer to make a mistake, the swarmer will force him to make them. This dynamic has been demonstrated time and time again.

Just to be clear what I am talking about, I will list some examples of fighters that I class as pure swarmers:

Battling Nelson
Henry Armstrong
Jake LaMotta
Carmen Basillio
Rocky Marciano
Joe Frazier
Ricky Hatton

 

Categorising fighters into fixed fighting styles with set advantages over one another in the “rock, paper, scissors” scenario is far too general. It is broadly speaking utterly and deeply pure Mumbo jumbo.

It’s a rough guide. That’s all.

There are strategies for all styles to overcome the other. A boxer can overcome swarmers and swarmers can overcome boxers. All styles beat each other. And there are hybrids within each style. Boxer-puncher. Counter-pressure. And all ways to draw each type to fight the wrong fight.

If things were so set Or so fixed then fighters would not need coaching.

 

**** Me! I never thought I would see this day!

 

This is a very good response. It takes a lot of work rate to keep a good swarmer away. Ultimately it is the fighter who can best implement his strategy regardless of style.

This post demonstrates what both type of fighter has to do in order to win. You can’t rule out a great swarmer. You can’t rule out a great boxer. Not until they fight each other.

Every style of fighter has excellent points.

 

Nope you forgot to add a very important phrase.and its "he will try".As in he will try and force his way inside,he will try and overwhelm him with his punch output.etc.
Just to be clear Lamotta lost to SRR 5 times.
Basilio lot to SRR 1 out of 2.
Marciano was behind on points when he finally nailed Walcott.
Hatton was picked clean by Mayweather.
Nelson was schooled by Gans.
Basilio was outpointed by Saxton.
For every example you give you can find a counter example.

 

There are so many factors and tangents.

Not at least a referees tolerance for desperate rough house tactics.

However, Rocky still has an excellent chance because he was a great fighter. Larry was knocked cold by Nick Wells and dropped by Bobbick as an amateur. Nearly knocked out by Renaldo Snipes. Why rule out an ATG puncher?

There is no done deal for either man here. They are both great fighters with real heart. Both got up off the floor to win at elite level.

 

I haven't ruled out either man,all I've done is state I think Holmes deserves to be made the favourite in this match up. Marciano was dropped by journeyman Toxie Hall how is it relevant ?
How are Holmes amateur fights relevant?
Want to look at Marciano's 8-0-4 amateur record?
Here is a report of one of his fights.
"The result was a the worst showing of Rocky’s fighting career. He threw tons of punches in the first round, missing with almost all of them, and was winded and gasping by the second round. In desperation, unable to lift his arms or fight back, Rocky responded instinctively with a kick as Lester came in to try to finish him off. Officially, it was said he kneed Lester in the groin. Lester’s son told me that the foul was to the stomach, not the groin. However, since it sounded worse as a groin blow, that’s how it was reported. Marciano was disqualified and was booed and jeered. It was a lesson he never forgot." Does that give us line on how he does against Holmes? Of course not!

 

You are correct about Marciano not making the grade with his brief amateur record. Larry was a more decorated amateur wasn’t he?

I was simply pointing out that it’s worth keeping an open mind both ways.

 

I was simply pointing out that ,imo Holmes should be made the favourite here.

 

Rocky will just fall over as soon as he steps in the ring with him.

 

Marciano was on the verge of being stopped by 175lbs Ted Lowry in their first fight and he wasn't a banger.So maybe, just maybe, Holmes could stop Rocky?

 

Yes he definitely could. As a matter of fact I'd bet on it. However the way everyone writes off Marciano in this thread especially that ****** @Pugilist_Spec (who's honestly just the biggest Holmes fanboy) is frankly laughable.