Could Marciani carry Holmes jock strap? Holmes vs Marciano

Shavers was quite a bit quicker than Marciano.

The best of Marciano's era were either geriatrics like Walcott, lightheavies like Charles or Moore. Holmes fought live, young, dangerous fighters.

And again with this myth of Marciano coming on like a terror for 15 rounds. He went 15 rounds ONE TIME against a 100 fight geriatric who would go less than .500 for the remainder of his career. Fifteen rounds was old hat for Holmes.

 

and I would like to let all Rocky's fans know that I would back him to give anyone in history who weighed under 195 pounds a tremendous fight and more than likely beat them if the fight was held over the old 15 round distance.

He was an incredibly admirable fighter who absolutely maximised what gifts he had through hard work and determination. He had some xtremely admirable qualities.

Despite that I just cannot see his style working against 6 ft 2 plus prime guys who could box and who weighed over 210 like Ali, Holmes, Holyfield etc let alone the modern giants like Lewis, Wlad K etc.

I also find it hard to see him competing with guys like Liston, Foreman and Tyson as they were too big , strong and punched too hard.

Cheers All.

 

During Ali's prime Rudi Lubbers, Mac Foster, and Buster Mathis all went the distance with him. Juergen Blin made it into the 7th round, Mildenberger made it into the 12th etc, yet somehow Cockell lasting 9 rounds with Marciano is worse?

 

As far as Charles and Moore being light heavies.....Jimmy Ellis and Patterson were the same size as Charles and they were contenders in the 60s and early 70s. If Charles and Moore's success in the 50s is a knock on the era than no doubt the same is true for Ellis and Patterson in the 60s and 70s. A prime Bonavena even lost to Patterson when Patterson was 37.

 

Anyone ever say Ali was one of the greatest punchers of all time?
Ali made no attempt to finish off Mathis and anyone who says he couldn't have, either hasn't watched the fight
or doesn't know what he is watching.
Cockell was stopped by middle weight Randy Turpin.

 

So what?

Liston went the distance with Whitehurst who got KO’d in one round by 180lb Joe Rowan.

Is Listons power and punching prowess some overhyped myth too?

I think you hang way too much on this point, since it doesn’t survive peer scrutiny.

 

I was replying to another post which makes a comparison between Marciano and Ali , not making a point to stand on its own.I don't hang anything anywhere. I happen to think Frazier matches up better with modern heavies .
H2H I pick Marciano to beat Frazier.
ps Liston also knocked Whitehurst completely out of the ring in the rematch and he was trying to get back in when the final bell rang and saved him from a ko, but you know this.

I haven't said Marciano is any sort of overhyped myth. I've said he is routinely considered by many posters to be an alltime great puncher and Ali certainly is not, so to compare their respective results against totally different opponents is nonsensical .
You are once again rushing to defend Rocky from an attack that hasn't been launched.
Calm down!

 

During Marciano's prime Charles was the only one to last the distance. To consistently kayo such opposition is impressive. The fact that people are reduced to critiquing him for the round he kayoed his opponents is telling.

 

Average age of that opposition 36.

 

Perspective. Going into the Marciano fight 38/40 years old Moore had been ko'd 4times and floored 35 times.

 

That’s right, poor old Archie Moore, he was dug up wasn’t he?

Best form of his entire career. Beat #1 and #2 Heavyweight contenders, the undisputed middleweight champion and the undisputed lightheavyweight champion withint the previous 18 months in the run to Marciano.

After losing to Marciano, Archie was still the favourite to beat 21 year old Patterson and win the Heavyweight title. That’s how past it Moore was...

 

It seems to be much more an indictment of the state of the division than of Moore. No one faults Moore for taking the opportunities that the times provided.

 

Bob Baker and Nino Valdes were mighty fine Heavyweight contenders. Big wholesome boys with skill. I thought they would be right up your street Seamus? You don’t like them?

 

I like them just fine. But Moore was an ATG at lightheavy and that was more than enough beat B-level operators in the next division up. It was still an uncommonly weak era for heavyweights. Moore went for the money and no one can blame him.

 

Yes, Moore was an ATG at lightheavyweight. So far as contenders go, wasn’t Moore also an ATG contender at Heavyweight though? After all Baker and Valdes were solid guys rated #1 and #2. Can you conceivably think of a better qualified contender than Moore at heavyweight? Favourite to win vacant title against Patterson?

What is B level about Baker and Valdes? You just admitted “I like them just fine”. Wouldn’t this endorsement from you dismiss both Valdes and Baker from this B level snub?