Could Marciani carry Holmes jock strap? Holmes vs Marciano

In strong eras, the heavyweight division is not turned upside down by lightheavies. This occurs in weak or transitional times. You get a "capture the flag" type such as Tunney or Spinks or Jones, Jr... or even to an extent Marciano. You could almost see it as a litmus test.

 

No athlete is prime when he is 38/40 years old.
Archie himself said his legs were gone by the time of the Marciano fight,so if you have a problem with that take it up with his spirit!

 

Given how many fights against elite-level opponents Moore had I don't think getting stopped 4 times is at all a mark against him. In more recent times fighters fight much less frequently and don't tackle elite competition with the same frequency. If he had been stopped 4 times in 25 fights you might have a better case.

 

I would say Leon Spinks winning the undisputed heavyweight championship and a badly diminished Ali clinging to the title is more indicative of a crappy era than anything you can find in the 50s.

 

If someone like Spinks had won the title in the 50s (with 7 pro fights no less) no doubt people would continuously bring it up as evidence of how bad the 50s are but since it happened in the supposedly golden but actually not so golden 70s people don't like to mention it.

 

Again, a transitional era, this time between the Ali and those who bathed in his aura and Holmes. Much like the era between a badly fading Louis and the arrival of Ali.

 

That is a pretty darn long transitional era!

 

Yes, it was a elongated because Liston should have been the next great champ, a paradigmatic heavy of a model that would come to dominate decades later, but Liston had to wait too long, grew too old and ran up against the next great paradigmatic heavy.

 

Come on now.

Liston was never going to be the next great champ.

The way to destroy Liston, was to give him the title!

There is more to an era, than the single best fighter.

The best contenders of Marciano's era, and Patterson's era, were better than those of Ali's pre ban title reign.

 

Hi Coji, I haven't seen anyone claim that the Heavyweight division wasnt anything but in transition by the late 70s. Nobody claims the 1977-1979 period was golden. Ali and Frazier were finished, Foreman was in retirement, Norton was past his best and Jimmy Young had began his decline. Even guys like Lyle, Quarry and Bonavena were finished.

You are using a straw man type argument.

Ali was completely shot when he lost to Spinks, kind of like Charles in the Marciano rematch.

Do you actually believe that the 5 ft 10, 185 pound, easy to cut Marciano would defeat fighters like Larry Holmes and Ali ?

If you do its a "faith'' based belief not based on any proven reality as Rocky never fought anyone like those guys.

To be honest the Rocky faithful remind me a bit of evangelical types. They make a lot of noise and a lot of vague statements about these mystical, otherworldly qualities Marciano had compared to any other fighter.

Rocky was actually a pro fighter for only 8 and a half years and heavyweight champion for 3 years which compared to someone like Larry Holmes is a small hill compared to a mountain range as far as length of career, title defenses made and overall opposition.

Its no coincidence that there hasnt been a man of his size or style as Heavyweight champion in 60 years since.

Cheers.

 

Utter tripe. Liston got the title long after he should have. He was a the prototype of the long, large athletic fighter with frightening power. He could easily have been champ in 57 or 58 and made a 6 or 7 year run at the top.

Hah! You have really lost a grasp with reality, haven't you.

 

Over time the bigger fighters have gotten more skilled. I'm not convinced that Ali or Holmes would be able to compete today given today's top heavies are so much bigger than those of the 60s and 70s. Marciano would almost certainly be too small for the likes of Klitschko and Joshua but with the 60s and 70s heavyweights the size gap seems small enough for him to overcome. Were talking about an era in which Ellis a former middleweight was a top contender and smaller heavyweights like Patterson and Quarry enjoyed succcess.

 

He certainly would have been a contender but he would also have racked up losses and had an even shorter career than he had in the 50's..

 

I`m not sure but I do agree with you that Ali`s pre exile "untouchable" period was pretty much light work.

 

Lmao i did think that oscar died in 1976