Could Marciani carry Holmes jock strap? Holmes vs Marciano

The thing is seldom has a heavyweight performed so far above their weight as Foreman. His power and strength could easily pass off for a 240 pounder - the guy was insane, an absolute wrecking ball.

Just as many are claiming Wilder is an outlier so to was Foreman, probably more so. He looked far bigger than he actually weighed and performed accordingly. For all intents and purposes the guy was a giant.

 

Hi Coji, what say you about the 214 pound Wilder having the physical strength to throw the 240 pounds plus Ortiz to the canvas as well as hurting the Cuban everytime he hit him with a right hand.

Surely the 240 pound guy should have won on size alone according to your persistent logic.

 

Yep Foreman is still to this day the largest 220 pound guy I have seen JT. He was always trained down to try n give him more stamina in case the fight went 15 rounds.

I believe that without " modern sports medicine " that both Lewis and Wladimir K would have weighed around 228-230 max ( which they both did in their early careers ) which considering their height makes them a lot skinnier naturally than someone like Foreman who is an absolute bull of a man.

Cheers Mate

 

Just an aside but wasn't Ortiz stunned from a punch, standing straight up, and trying to hold when Wilder threw him? Doesn't really require super strength to throw a 240-lb man in those conditions.

 

I dunno about Luis Firpo and the 37 year old Willard being " world class " heavyweights.

So now Dempsey can handle big world class modern heavyweights but Ali, Holmes and Foreman cannot ?

I have to disagree with those views mate.

Cheers.

 

Foreman was a bull for sure mate. In Lewis' case he may have been even better at that lower weight after being moulded by Steward. He had that bit more snap and explosiveness tho he certainly got the job done heavier too.

 

Indeed he was Kev, I will ask you a question amigo.

Did the extra 30 pounds that Ortiz had on Wilder make any real positive difference to the way Ortiz fought?

I would suggest " no " myself mate.

It was his boxing ability from the southpaw stance using subtle shifting footwork and his counterpunching and combination punching that gave Wilder trouble. Things that the extra 30 pounds didnt really effect.

If Ortiz was a slugger or someone who who used his weight then I would be all ears mate.

Its all about styles and Ortiz would have been better off being 20 pounds lighter ( and 15 years younger ) in my opinion as he would have more stamina and more overall speed of foot and body movement.

Cheers.

 

Foreman spent much of his career fighting men who weighed significantly less than he did. It's easier to look strong when your fighting smaller guys than when your facing guys your size our larger. Also, Foreman didn't look especially strong against Lyle or Ali two guys close to his size.

The tale of the tape stats also don't point to Foreman being particularly powerful for his size. Sonny Liston for example appears to have had a more massive upper body and arms than Foreman did despite being about 12 pounds lighter (212 vs 224).

 

Anyway, I don't think Dempsey would be successful against the heavyweights of today and I don't think Foreman would be either for that matter. But I think you could probably make a better case for Dempsey beating Foreman than Foreman beating Joshua.

 

Completely disagree.

The case to be made would be Joshua beating Foreman not vice versa. Joshua is still a 20 fight kid at the end of the day who still has questions to answer just like Deontay.

 

I tend to agree.

Yes Joshua is very impressive, but Foreman would still be the default pick over him, at this stage.

I feel that Dempsey answered his questions fairly comprehensively, and not all of them to his favor.

Foreman would be a stylistic nightmare for him, while Joshua might well play into his hands.

 

Willard started his career at 29 years old and won the title at 33. He wasn't very far removed from his peak if at all.

 

I disagree. I think Dempsey would have a much harder time with Foreman than Foreman would with Joshua. Joshua has dodgy stamina and was put down by a lesser puncher than Foreman. Dempsey and Foreman would be brutal. Foreman could definitely put Dempsey down but Dempsey could do the same to Foreman. Would be interesting to see how Foreman would react to Dempsey's vicious body shots and follow up hooks.

Foreman is certainly a tall order for a big punching swarmer such as Dempsey.

 

Apologies for the factual error mate, I still believe that Willard's peak vs Johnson was well gone by the time he faced Dempsey. He hadnt actually fought in three and a half years which I just learned. Evidently Dempsey wasnt the only fighter to sit on the Heavyweight title n not defend it for over 3 years.

Cheers Mate.

 

You didn't say anything factually incorrect. Maybe just a little misinterpretation. Willard was 245 for the Dempsey bout, about 15 lbs lighter than he had been for Moran. He was obviously training very hard in order to cut all that weight off that he had gained during the lay off. I don't think he was at the peak that he had against Johnson but I also don't buy that he was fat out of shape and washed up. I think he was in good condition to defend his title and prepared just fine. He was never a fantastic heavyweight, he is mostly remembered for being the white hope that took the title from Johnson.

As far as sitting on the title, Willard didn't really have much of a choice because of WW1. There are a lot of reasons that Willard couldn't really get any defenses off because of the war, the specifics escape my mind at this point in time.