Could Marciani carry Holmes jock strap? Holmes vs Marciano

Hi again Heracles, as the USA didnt actually enter WW1 until April 1917 do ya think it made any real big difference to Willard's scheduling ?

Big Jess fought Johnson in April 1915 when WW1 had actually been going since July 1914.

Willard then took 11 months until he fought Moran in March 1916.

I do know that Jack Dempsey had at least 60 pro fights in the 1914-1918 period so it wasnt like US boxing went on hiatus in that period.

Cheers Mate.

 

This is true but the U.S. didn't enter the war until 1917

 

See, the problem is accomplishments in one era don't translate to success in other eras. The 70s lacked skilled super heavyweights like Joshua and are much closer in size to today's cruiserweights than the top heavyweights of whom many are 6'4+ and 240+. I don't see how Foreman's wins over a 212 pound Norton, a 214 pound Frazier or 220 pound Lyle are in any way relevant to fighting someone with Joshua's skills and size.

Foreman doesn't have any wins over skilled super heavyweights which to me would be of actual relevance for a fight with Joshua.

 

Like I said, I'm not exactly sure the specifics of it but I do know that at least until after the US entered the war there was public sentiment against defending the heavyweight title. Again, not sure the specific. Could be because of an obligation to help the war effort. I don't know.

I also do know that prior to the US officially entering the war was having a large effect on the American people from the get-go. Wasn't something where all of a suddenly we're in this war how do we feel about it sort of thing.

 

What exact "skills" does Joshua have that set him apart so much?

 

Are you saying the super heavyweights do this to the normal heavyweights? Cause they're bigger?

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For one Joshua is physically much stronger and a much, much bigger puncher. I think Foreman is less likely to be able to absorb punches from Joshua than he would be much smaller guys like Frazier and Lyle.

 

In the 25+ years since Bowe beat Holyfield the division has come to be dominated by much bigger heavyweights. This seems like fairly compelling evidence that they have improved to the degree that smaller heavyweights cannot compete at the elite level. If Foreman could rise to the top today then why haven't any Foreman-sized heavyweights managed to dominate in the last quarter century?

 

Strength isn't a skill though. You said skills.

 

This seems to smell a bit like Double Standard to me. It absolutely reeks of it.

If you are saying Foremans power and strength at 218 (as he was versus Joe Frazier) could easily pass for a 22lb bigger man then you must accept this standard of yours also works for other strong Punchers?

 

You disappeared for 3 weeks again, where ya bin?

There's no double standard at all. You fail to follow what i imply and also (as usual) fail to give Foreman his due credit.

I think it's obvious i am saying Foreman was basically unique and he was, no if's or buts.

The standard does not work for other strong punchers at all. For starters Foreman had both insane strength and insane punching power. The guy could bowl people over even with punches lacking leverage, arm punches.

He is unique. No-one could have manhandled Joe Frazier in that sort of fashion. Sure there might be 2 or 3 who'd be a chance of blowing him out early but none would have given him quite what Foreman did.

 

You know exactly where this is heading.

 

I have been away in deep meditation, soul searching and improving my wisdom. I have returned Refreshed. A more humble, knowledgeable and considerate version of myself.

As did Marciano. Pound for pound Marciano was as strong too. He physically bulled Joe Louis around as effectively as much bigger Giants did.

I agree George did bowl people over. Without full leverage he could devastate heavyweights his own size as if he had used full leverage. But where is the evidence of him doing this with guys 22lb bigger than he was? I’m not saying he couldn’t. I actually agree with you that there is every likelihood George was plenty strong enough for bigger guys than he was without proof -but where is the proof? Do we have it? Why should such faith in “unique strength for size” only be restricted to Georgie boy?

Foreman did a wonderful job on the type of Joe Frazier he fought. He really did.

 

Marciano bulled a 37 years old Louis around.The Louis who manhandled Carnera might have been a different proposition.

 

If we are talking about Marciano bulling Louis around, a #1 contender twenty pounds heavier than Rocky was, why, in just a physical sense, would Rocky find bulling the lighter version of Louis any harder to bull around?

Louis who fought Carnera weighed almost twenty pounds lighter than the older, more muscular 213lb version that Rocky fought.

In strickly a physical strength kind of way, rather than a boxing prowess kind of way, how can a 213lb man be easier to bull around than a 196lb man?