Could Marciani carry Holmes jock strap? Holmes vs Marciano

Only people who didn’t watch the film say that.

 

Bull****. Your lazy implication is obvious. If you care that much, go back and look at my posts.

 

Ok, I shall take it that size is less of a factor to you than it used to be.

 

And what level of a factor is that? Boxing is segregated by basic skills and ability... Silver Gloves, Golden Gloves, Olympics, Professional. And boxing is segregated by size, minimum to heavy. Apparently those in charge see fit to make those the two largest factors in deciding who fights who.

 

Yes those who invented the original boxing weight classes recognised Size is a big factor only until you get to the open weight division. They must have decided things levelled off after a certain point hence still no superheavyweight division.

So sure, the original seven weight classes are important.

Extra classses were later invented in order to invent more champions. As you know, more governing bodies were invented in order to invent even more champions after that. So I guess your going to tell us that is as important too?

What level of factor is that?

 

Until they got to 200lb.
Then they were just like “**** it, good enough.”

 

In spirit, I agree with what you're saying. In my experience, 200 isn't the mark of leveling out but there is definitely a mark for that. And I am all for catchweight fights because lighter fighters can surely catch lightning in a bottle for a bout or even few. But you have to have some exceptional assets to do this. And I don't think longevity at the very top is in the cards for those routinely giving up 20 or 30 pounds.

 

Generally it’s a huge task. But some can do it.

Wilder normally gives up 20-40lb on fight day. He’s been the smaller guy 31 out of 40 fights. He’s been outweighed from 10lb, to 200lb.

And he’s known as the toughest, hardest hitting HW in the game today. All the downsides of being a smaller fighter seem to be absent with Wilder.

 

There's nothing particularly impressive about knocking over TOMATO CANs and ole timers...

 

Firstly, Wilder is not a smaller fighter. He's a freakin' gossamer who sells out on his leverage. Secondly, Wilder has exceptional assets, as I mentioned above. And the more we see, the more he shows of them. Who thought he had the heart and toughness we learned against Ortiz? I will damn sure admit I had undersold him. But then again, he didn't show us a lot in terms of beating upper level competition.

 

Yes, he was the smaller man in a large majority of his fights. Hearns was freakishly tall too, whip-dee-doo. He was stilled matched up based on his weight, not his height. Wilder is a 220lb fighter. No matter how bad ass he looks, he is a 220lb fighter.

I don’t bring him up to show that you changed your mind on his durability. I bring him up as a supporting claim to what we’ve been saying for the last few years. That a smaller HW, even if outweighed by 40lb, is capable of being the toughest, hardest hitting, etc. He just happened to prove our point in a modern setting.

This was literally the primary point of contention on this forum for the past few years. The sad thing is that if Wilder hadnt existed, we’d still be on this “size > all” trip.

 

And in spite all of that where does Wilder fare against the greatest of all time right now?

I’m all for giving him a break until his career can progress further, and respect and appreciate what Wilder has achieved so far. He is better than all the Oafs and drug cheats he has fought so far without being as heavy as most of them. And if he has Proved being outweighed is not always the obstacle fans of jumbo sized fighters believe ...then it puts wilder closer comparison with past greats weight wise.

I have long felt the super heavyweight is an artificial weight. Largely An unnatural creation of enhanced guys who should weigh less or a division of jess Willard types. And Wilder is proving that it is panning out that way.

 

Lewis was sometimes cautious but could also go after his opponent aggressively as illustrated in the Golota and Ruddock fights. I imagine that if Lewis was in the mood to be aggressive he could end it in the first round. I think Mike Tyson and David Tua would also end it early. With Tyson Frazier may be dispatched quicker than Foreman whereas he might make it a bit longer against Tua (maybe a 2nd or 3rd round kayo).

 

Wilder is 6 foot 7 with an 83" reach and weighs in at 215-230. How is that small? He is bigger than Ali, Holmes and even prime Foreman. Do you think Wilder, with his skillset, at 6 foot with a 75 inch reach accomplishes what he has?

Secondly, let's not get ahead of ourselves too much. I am now a Wilder fan... BUT... he has beaten a 40 year old guy who was a good challenger at best and who appears on film to have seen his best days. What is his 3rd or 4th or 7th best win? W Let's see how he does against a Joshua or the winner of Whyte/Brown or even an older Povetkin. Wilder's longevity against elite heavies is non-existent.

 

I don't think Wilder is a good example if your trying to make the case that smaller heavyweights can compete today. His competition has been pretty subpar overall and the few highly rated opponents he have faced are not significantly bigger.