Could Marciani carry Holmes jock strap? Holmes vs Marciano

I agree fully Mac, but you know it still grates with some on here.

 

I actually had sympathy for Larry. No matter what he did the media didn’t want him as a champion. He beat Ali, he beat Cooney...the media did not want him to win either fight. Larrys “Marciano outburst” was bad taste but I can see where it came from. So I forgive him.

People forgive Tyson for all his faults. Why not forgive Larry?

Champions are supposed to believe they can’t be beat. They are supposed to believe in themselves. It makes them bitter when others don’t believe in them like they do and gloat when they finally lose.

If one champion says a bad thing about another champion, and he apologises, where is the harm?

 

Not just that, but he basically recanted it at the same exact moment with his next few sentences.

Larry made it clear that his anti-Marciano tirade was meant for empowerment because the press had been making the comparison, and there was some hooplah about it. He acted according to his stature as a legendary champion having his position checked.

 

It's funny how people seemingly don't look at why he said what he said... It's almost as if no one in their entire lives has uttered some tremendously stupid or inappropriate thing during some of our moments of greatest stress, pay no attention that most of us don't have to go through life with a microphone under our nose recording everything we saw for years on end...

 

Unlike Holmes, Marciano was consistently facing the best challengers available whereas Holmes especially post-Cooney ducked the best opponents. There were no bouts with Dokes, Coetzee, Tubbs, Thomas, etc all of whom were deserving of a shot. Holmes was cherry-picking by not fighting the best challengers.

 

This.

 

Holmes did not duck Dokes because Dokes was committed to rematching Weaver then Coetzee who he lost to. Holmes signed to meet Coetzee four times in 1984 but the fight kept falling through until both Coetzee and Larry were forced to defend their own titles before being stripped. Coetzee lost his title to Page who he was supposed to beat but Greg had just lost to Bey. So Larry beat Bey. Larry did not duck Tubbs either. All these guys had to make one defence before they were in a position to defend against Larry but none of them were good enough to do this.

Thomas is one guy Larry should have fought. Pinklon was injured in sparring and out a long time anyway but when Thomas defended against Berbick it was around the time Larry was already set to meet Micheal Spinks.

Holmes still beat Witherspoon, Smith, Berbick, Weaver, Ali, Leon Spinks, ken Norton and Muhammad Ali. It’s not like he did not beat world champions.

 

Was Lastarza the best challenger? Don Cockell?

 

Lastarza was nominated “logical contender” by the NBA from a bunch of contenders that included Dan Bucheroni and Ezzard Charles. It was decided Lastarza would go ahead of Charles to challenge Rocky since Ezzard had recently challenged Walcott and that Roland would sell better at the polo grounds because of the rematch angle and because he was a New Yorker.

The press campaigned for a Lastarza rematch. The talk was Wiell would not grant Roland a rematch. It was the more built up fight.

Cokkell was rated #2 behind Nino Valdes but Valdes had recently appalled New York fans in a lousy fight with James J Parker where as Don Cokkell had impressed in good selling fights on the west coast and had beaten Roland Lastarza in London.

When Larry fought Lucian Rodriguez and Frank Scott nobody knew those guys were even in the running for a crack at the title -and that’s if they even knew who they were. They probably didn’t know they were in the running Themselves either.

 

Cockell and LaStarza were both ranked in the top 10.

 

So were Clarence Henry ,Bob Baker, and Earl Walls.
You said," facing the best contenders".

 

Two fights prior to getting his title shot Lastarza not only lost to light heavyweight journeyman Rocky Jones, he was floored by him!
Lastarza was a protected, well managed fighter who was steered well clear of the iron of the division. The list of dangerous contenders he missed would make a top ten of its own!

Lastarza's claim to fame was split decision over a Rex Layne whom Marciano had basically ruined.Layne had him going early but was outboxed.His only other win of note was over Bucceroni who himself had only beaten Lastarza at heavyweight,Bucceroni had fought mostly light heavies.
d fought mostly light heavoies
Cockell got his chance because he beat a damaged Lastarza, and a ruined Mathews who had no business with the heavies in the first place .

 

Show me these press campaigns for a Lastarza ttile shot I've the Ring magazine back to the 50's I don't recall any such groundswell of opinion for such.

 

What does that say of the state of the division at the time?

 

Nothing. The contenders in all eras were equally good, since boxing was always the same. Stop neglecting the holy dogma of the classics. Ohhhhhhhhmmmmmmm.