Could Marciano make 168lbs if he turned pro today?

I know. This is a silly thread. Blame the thread starter.

 

I am not going to debate the relative value of the thread. If that standard is to be applied there would be far fewer threads on the Forum.
However, to suggest that a 178 pound man could not dehydrate and rehydrate 10 pounds is the height of silliness.

 

Also keep in mind we are talking about making weight solely for the purpose of making weight for the weigh in. Saul Alvarez has weighed 15 to 20 pounds more in the ring and then he did at the time of the weigh-in. I think we're debating here if Rocky played the weight game that has become so common today, using the fact that he fought at 178th pounds previously, could make 168 pounds. And the answer is yes, absolutely!
Much more extreme examples are available and both boxing and MMA.

The discussion regarding the harm to the fighters and the sport is a much deeper discussion. Personally, I think this is one biggest the negatives the sport is facing currently. Extreme hydration and rehydration comma for example exceeding 20 pounds comma is believed to not adequately rehydrate the brain in less than 72 hours. This practice also leads two huge size disparity at fight time as we have seen in Alvarez vs Khan and Julio Cesar Chavez and a number of his opponents. This issue could be adequately addressed with hydration requirements used in wrestling. For the health of both the fighters and the sport I would like to move away from the winning through chemistry that has become a major factor today.

 

Weight draining is a prisoners dilemma.

If both fighters do it they're both worse off because draining yourself of water and using laxatives is not healthy in any way.

But if one fighters decides on not draining then he will most likely have to sacrifice muscle weight, or fight in a higher weight division.
Both cases mean he will be fighting men bigger than him, which puts him at a disadvantage.

Nobody wants to be the smaller man unless they have to, either because of money or not being able to get opposition at lower weights (again, money issue)

 

Where do we draw the line though?

Would Jofre have been a flyweight?

Armstrong a bantamweight?

Ross a featherweight?

Robinson a lightweight?

Hagler a welterweight?

Spinks a middleweight?

It's impossible to say. But I suppose it's every bit as valid as saying Rocky and Dempsey would be HW fighters today.

Interesting thread but without a deep understanding of the science behind it and the individual circumstances of each fighter, it's impossible to say.

 

When 24 hour weigh ins became a thing why didn't every fighter move up a division?

When the draining technology became more prevalent, why didn't every fighter move down a division?

When these two things happened there wasn't a massive shift in weight classes.

 

I likey poos this thread.

What do I think? Well for a start he'd win the mmotherfucccking world title. He'd break Tommy hearns ribs, he'd walk down calzaghe make pesto of his asss,toney would be slicky poos but Ricky would bit his arms,his hips, his goddamm breadbasket than up in the kiester......y"all be sayin I must forgot my main man Roy...true tat mmother****kker be a very hard to beat mo fuccker ...basically rocky would make the weight easy...he would have the physique and man strength of a Glencoe Johnson,the teak tough chin of Froch x 3 , he'd be a murderous launcher with serious volume like a calzaghe plus that craziness of roldan.....a fight with champagne would see both men throwing slaps and punches like whirlwinds for all the motherffuccking world it would look like two chefs making pasta twirling dough above their head and around and around such would be the volume of punches....Rocky would drink olive oil and eat fabulous between rounds...he would reign and retire 50-0

 

You of could ask the same of Evander Holyfeild, Max Schmeling, Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Gene Tunney, Floyd Patterson, Michael Moorer... But nobody ever will.

 

Since Patterson has actually fought below or at 168 pounds numerous times, it would be a bit redundant to ask it for him.
Same for Schmeling.
And Jack Johnson, who has a fight listed at 168.
And Gene Tunney, who does have a fight listed at 165.

So if the question is, could those fighters have made 168 lbs at their debut, or early on.
A big yes, because they've done it in the past.

Holyfield could have, I think.
Did Moorer have a 24 hour weigh in already?

 

Moving down a division could hurt your money potential, and since most fighters still have room for more muscle they probably decided on that path.

And since they didn't have 24 weigh ins before, I doubt they directly knew just how much they could drain. And only did it carefully.
The young guns like Toney, G-Man, De La Hoya were the ones who used it to their fullest.

 

Moorer made 175lb without 24 hour weigh in.

Marciano was 192lb for his debut.

 

Right. So if the point of this thread is to eliminate Marciano from any debate with modern heavyweights on account of him not being in the same weight class must we relegate Schmeling, Patterson, Dempsey, Braddock, Jack Johnson, gene Tunney also into "blown up 168 pounders"?

Whatever a guy weighs in at is not what he weighs in the ring anyway. If somebody wants Be 200lb they can be 200lb.

Initially weight classes were introduced to get men closer in size to face off without a weight advantage so people could determine whom was the best "boxer" rather than just the best "wrestler" using his weight unfairly. It was desired to resolve who could win with just the boxing method.

All that is gone now.

 

Way too man assumptions on this thread.
I see a lot of assuming certain fighters in the past didn't use 24-hour weigh-ins, when in fact I think some of them probably did manage to wangle that into their contracts for a lot of the time. Certainly in the 1980s I remember boxing writers reporting weigh ins often from the day before. Disputes over times of weighing in have always occurred, and early weigh ins have occurred often.

Even with a morning weigh-in, a middleweight who is 168 in the ring is capable of making 160. So the idea that the morning weigh-ins mean "in the ring weight" is wrong.

Every hour makes a difference, so unless we have a record of what hour all the weigh ins occurred we shouldn't make claims about fight X, Y or Z.
Unless we have all the details we can't say.

Another assumption is that Marciano or whoever was not draining to weigh-in at all, but maybe he was.
Some heavyweights do, especially in the past.
Not that we can really trust a heavyweight weigh in. The correctness of a heavyweight's weigh-in is not important.