Could Marvin Hagler go 12 with Ron Lyle?

I agree with you reasoning on Hopkins/Hagler on all the aspects that you mentioned...Bernard Hopkins is one of the best defensive middleweights I've ever seen on film...Such a tactical strategist! But the thing I would feel uncomfortable with in picking Hopkins over Hagler... is Hagler's determination in his prime, he would 'want it more' than Hopkins...I know that isn't exactly something tangible...but if things weren't going Hagler's way, he had the mental fortitude to fight through it...That would be hard to overcome.IMO That is what would make me tentative in picking Hopkins.

 

There's no separating Hagler and Hopkins will wise. They both have indomitable wills as far as I'm concerned.

I feel, along with other facets of it, that Hopkin's is just more savvy and wouldn't have any problems thumbing Hagler in round 1 or 2, tying one arm up and going to work like the amazing in-fighter he is as not to have it broken up due to holding, and so on.

 

Don't expect Hagler to sit back and take Hopkins' tomfoolery like all those other tin cans did.

 

Yeah, he'd thumb him back Roldan style.

 

First of all, why on earth would Hagler want to go up in weight all the way to HW and fight a genuine big guy like Lyle? I mean, Hagler dominated the MWs and was champ for a long time. But unlike many others he never tried going up in weight.

But purely for conjecture if we assume that Marvin juices up and goes heavy and fights Ron. What happens? Marvin had a terrific chin and was more skilled. I think, Lyle still would win. Why? Let us just say that the natural size differential would still be too much for Marvin to bridge. But it would definitely not be by early kayo. Marvin would go up at least to the middle rounds.

Lastly, a word about Ron Lyle. Many here seem to have doubts about Ron as a power puncher. They point to his record to confirm their point. They say that aside from the KO of Shavers and the KDs against Foreman, Lyle hasn't done anything to claim to be a power puncher. But the fact is that Lyle is one of those guys who fought only as the situation warranted.

When faced by boxers who were not intent on knocking him out and on only winning by outscoring him, Lyle also fought back in the same manner trying to score more points. Examples, the Ali and Bugner fights. But when faced by opponents bent upon destroying him he turned into a lethal punching machine showing punching power more or less on a par with the best. Examples are the Shavers and Foreman fights.

So, I would say that both Ron Lyles abilities in terms of skill and power are underrated.

 

Well said.

Ron definitely didn't go out there with the intent to destroy the people he was fighting, but he was more than capable of it.

 

Hang on - is this a stab at Hagler? You just said Hopkins would thumb him.

Either way, Hagler didn't thumb Roldan, or at least not in the way legend and hearsay would have you believe.

 

I'm joking, Manassa.

We don't know if Hagler thumbed him or not. He protested it moments after the fight while being interviewed, but looking at the damage and the way the fight was going at the time it happened...

 

Yes we do, it's on the slow motion replay. Hagler fires a flurry of uppercuts and one of them catches Roldan with the inside edge of glove and/or thumb right on the soft part of his eye.

 

Hopkins is savy and a very adept strategist...and he is determined also. Hence his longevity. But against a prime Hagler (please watch Sibson, Scypion, Hamsho I, Obel I) would Hopkins be a little more apprehensive, due to the physicality of Hagler? I not trying to denegrade Hopkins, I have the utmost respect for his accomplishments...But Hagler, went his back was 'against the wall' always fought to change the coarse of the fight, look at his career...Hopkins did not.(Taylor II) In a fight between the two of them that might be the difference. IMO

 

what a dumb thread

toney 230
hagler 160

 

If a prime Hagler sat back and took Hopkins' tomfoolery he'd get out-pointed. It wouldn't be wise for me to look at one Hagler fight, Duran, and come to the conlusion Hopkins beats him based on that contest alone. The broader picture has to be looked at. However, the Duran fight can't be ignored.

And regarding tin cans, Hagler fought his fair share of them as well. Maybe Hagler's "tin cans" were slightly better than Hopkins' ones, but he was hardly fighting Godzilla every second fight.

Take away Hopkins' name, lets say he's not got a name, and look at his attributes and strengths. I think you pretty much have a fighter to give Hagler serious problems. If you were building the ultimate fighter to beat a prime Hagler, then Hopkins' ticks mostly all the boxes. He's got a better chin than Hearns, tactically and defensively smarter, and has better inside skills.

I'm sure you'll agree, Hopkins does present Hagler with problems.

 

very good assessment

 

Not to mention Hopkin's has a four inch height advantage on Hagler, and he's proven himself at an advanced age AND beyond his prime weight class.

 

Of course Hopkins presents problems for Hagler. He just doesn't win.