Could Max Baer have taken the same amount of punches from M.Tyson as he did from Louis?

Disagree that a much bigger opponent with a very good back foot game and much faster feet/better mobility would have been “just another opponent for Louis to walk over.” Seems more likely that he takes a lot of punishment as he slowly follows Douglass around in circles waiting for opportunities to attack, like he did against Conn and Walcott, etc.

 

This. In hindsight Joe Louis being stopped by Schmeling was most likely the best thing to happen to him, since it humbled him and served as a wake up call that he still had a lot to learn.

 

Didn't see Tyson flattening anybody even remotely as good as Baer was. Even Rooney and Tyson before the Berbick fight were joking that Berbick was a tomato can, which he was. I also didn't see any effective infighting.

Nobody is arguing that Tyson can't hurt you when he gets his preferred range. The problem is that against top competition Tyson was rarely able to get that perfect range and his inability to fight on the inside was exposed numerous times. The James Douglas loss should've been a wake up call for Tyson to address this, but he never did. Douglas let Tyson get his preferred range once in the fight and was floored, but other than that he easily neutralized Tyson by not letting Tyson have the range he wanted. Smith and Tillis realized this too late in the fights with Tyson.

 

Incidentally if you matched them against the same opposition, I would expect Louis to perform better against some, and Tyson to perform better against others.

It would be a styles thing.

 

Let's be more precise here: Tyson's in-fighting problem was simply that he too often acquiesced when people held him, instead of putting forth the effort to create separation and use his short reach to maximum effect. It let fighters who were inclined to clamp down on him survive longer than they should have. The way you talk about Tyson, you would think that he was unable to land hard punches whenever his opponent was too close to him. I don't think that's right. Tyson could do plenty of damage from close-range, and I don't see him having any problems whatsoever doing so against someone with Max Baer's awful defense.

By the way, where, if at all, are you drawing the line between "infighting" and general close-range fighting?

 

Well he certainly never won a round on any judges scorecard. One would be looking mighty hard to find one. you do score both Lewis - Holyfield fights for Holyfield somehow tho.

What rounds would you like to put forward as being won by Bonecrusher?

Oh come on man fair go. Tyson slipped over Smith's foot, Smith didn't even hit him. You do know people can readily check it out for themselves on youtube yes.

I wouldn't say Tyson had poor stamina. He is in against a huge awkward guy who was spoiling. Tyson often settled into that slower pace later in the fight but these are fights he was winning easily like Tucker and Smith.

Hard to bag a guy for slowing a bit later on when the judges didn't give Smith a round.

Holyfield is a great fighter and fought a brilliant tactical fight. He also fought a declined Tyson tho i believe he would have won anytime personally.

Holyfield is just as big as Baer and a much better technical fighter.He's also a much greater fighter.

With all due respect you are watching different fights to what most of the rest of the world watched. Lewis getting two gifts, Smith knocking down Tyson, Fury struggling like mad with whatshisname etc etc.

Baer is a good fighter. He hits hard with both hands, has a great right hand from range and a fine jaw. He had some good wins. He's a bit crude to take Tyson tho for me. It's more about how long it would go.

 

No.

 

Well Tyson had fought 1 minute and 29 seconds in 4 1/2 years so lets give him a little bit of leeway. Having said that Mathis showed some serious inside skill for a heavyweights didn't he. Tyson kept to his gameplan however and got him out of there pretty quickly.

I agree Tyson wasn't that good in tight. We are getting picky tho. No-one is perfect at everything and i wouldn't call it a weakness as such. Guys like Lewis, Tucker and Bonecrusher are huge men. Most people just wanted to tie Tyson up inside and escape his fury for a bit lets be honest.

The thing is it takes one helluva fighter to beat Tyson at his best let there be no bones about that. Firstly you have to somehow survive what Tyson brings to the table and then you actually have to beat the man.

 

When did Smith knock down Tyson??

 

Well he didn't as i said

 

He seems like a good guy but I’m pretty sure I’ve never disagreed with anyone’s boxing takes so completely and consistently in my entire life.