Could Mike Tyson really beat Joe Frazier?

He was seriously huffing and puffing vs Holyfield in their first encounter, round 4 onwards, thats why in round 5, when he did rock Holyfield, he didnt follow up and just casually walked up to him.

Thats why in the rematch he said he fought cautiously for the first few rounds (so he doesnt blow his load early)

Even then, he wouldnt need that long to dispose of someone like Frazier.

Theres nothing a puncher loves more than an opponent who brings his chin served on a plate.

Chisora-Haye
Margarito-Mosely
Hatton-Pacqiauo
Frazier-Foreman

 

So Tyson was green and inexperienced in 1986 when he fought Tillis yet past his peak when he fought Douglas in 1990( no I dont buy into the idea that Tyson was out of shape so anyone would have beaten him - nobody fights for 10 rounds at that pace if they are grossly out of shape)

So Tyson I guess peaked between 1987-1988 then never looked the same again because Rooney wasn't there to wisper encouragemnt in his corner

I see Frazier vs Tyson being similar to Frazier vs Quarry. It will be a telephone booth style fight and if Frazier makes Tyson respect his power and he gets through the opening round without a knockdown then I think Frazier has a chance of winning

 

I take it youve never boxed before, otherwise you wouldnt be uttering such ****.

As i explained above, Tyson had fought no one prior to Tillis, Tillis was his first step up whereas Tillis had been in the ring with some of the best fighters of that period, if you think that is not experience, then your simply clueless.

Your confusing being out of shape and being lethargic, Tyson was in great shape, you dont just turn to flab overnight. Tyson was lethargic he was fighting with no desire and no desperation and almost boredom. You can tell the differnce between a hungry and motivated fighter to one that is not so because the hungrier fighter gets off his punches first. Like Tyson-Berbick for example, Tyson threw his punches first and beat Berbick to the punch.

Do you not feel a great corner is part and parcel of being a great fighter?

Tysons record with Kevin Rooney was something like 36-0. Tysons very next fight without Rooney, he got rocked in the first round and 2 fighs later was picking his gumshield up off the floor. That explains it all.

Didnt Wladmir get sparked a few times before Steward came to his rescue? and since then hes been on a streak for 10 years?

Tyson will walk through Fraziers power, as he did with a lot of guys and as Foreman did specifically with Frazier. When a fighter walks through your punches.....you're ****ed.

Will Frazier walk through Tysons punches, as per his style required?

I highly doubt it.

 

I think Tyson's peak was from the Berbick fight of late 1986 to probably the Spinks fight of mid 1988. That's a period of 8 championship fights which was more than Marciano, Jeffries, Dempsey, Liston and a few others we can think of.. In 1989 he was still very formidable but with a new management team and a different attitude things were going south. By February of 1990 he had seen only 93 seconds of ring action in the previous year against "the truth", had been working with incompetent management for about 18 months and was spending his nights out partying. Getting floored by Greg page in sparring was a tell tale sign of bad things to come.

 

Tyson said he hadnt trained particularly hard for a few fights prior to Douglas.

Spinks was a quick blowout, so we dont really know what happened behind the scenes.

He fought Bruno 8 months later (his longest layoff at the time), Bruno made Tyson look ordinary and only Tysons chin and power and Brunos shortcomings allowed him to win. Then he was in the ring with Williams for about a minute where once again, his power got him through.

So from 88-90 we cant really see how much hed lost. We dont even know how hard he trained for Bruno because when it came to the staredown, it was Tyson who looked away.

The fact that even a poor Tyson was still better than most guys shows how good he was at his peak.

 

Tyson would blast him out in less than 2 rounds.

 

In the months following the spinks fight and prior to Bruno, Tyson was having problems in his marriage with Givens.. He had also been in a car wreck that he caused himself.. Had a fiasco with Mitch Green. And of course the firing of both Bill Cayton and Kevin Rooney. By the time he fought Bruno in Feb of 89' his life wasn't in a particularly good place. A few weeks prior to fighting Williams his sister Denise passed away.. 7 months went by. He got floored in training with Greg Page and was seen on the streets of Tokyo late at night with women a few nights before the Douglas fight.. During the match he held his head down between rounds. Didn't seem engaged. And had cornerman offering little advice or nothing of use to motivate him.. few rounds went by, and he started swell. They used a rubber bag filled with dissolved water to reduce the swelling. Few days after the loss Gil Clancy and Angelo Dundee were interviewed and said that that was some of the worst corner work they've ever seen in a ring... Point being.. The man who fought Douglas that evening was anything but a prepared world champion.

 

Yep good post, I remember it the same way for the most part :good

 

Thanks,

They say that boxing is more mental than it is physical. After all that was said above, I don't know how any athlete could have been mentally prepared to a retain a title. Especially when facing a challenger who knew he had nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

Someone claimed above that the Tillis fight was proof that Tyson had no Plan B. I'd say comfortably out-pointing someone you're unable to KO is proof of the opposite. Tillis won three rounds at best, if we're being generous, and was knocked down as well. It's amazing how people are trying to build a case against Tyson based on a 19 year old going ten rounds for the first time in a fight he won clearly anyway.

 

Yep.

 

You see this is the problem with you fanboy types. You simply invent lies, and bulls**t to endorse your own agenda's.

Tyson married Givens 7th February 1988. The marriage started falling to bits ( with Givens alleging domestic violence ) 3 months later in May 1988. One month BEFORE the debacle with Spinks. It would appear it didn't put him off his game plan in that fight wouldn't it?

Similarly the marriage ended on 14th February 1989. Eleven days BEFORE he destroyed Bruno. Again it wouldn't seem he was too distracted in that fight either would it?

You might just consider ( though I sincerely doubt you have the ability ) perhaps the difference between those guys and Douglas, was he actually turned up to win, and did so, comfortably, because that jab kept finding Tyson's face like a homing device, and always would have at any stage of his career. It was indeed that jab which totally sickened Tyson.

Slipping the jabs of plums, and junkies, or old men, doesn't mean you are going to slip the jab Douglas was throwing that night.

Now we get the dead sister excuse. Tyson was about as close to his family as the sea is to the sky, which is why he was carted off to institutions, and ended up in the custody of D'Amato in the first place.

Tyson is by no means the first fighter to have a car crash, and or go drinking and whoring in the build up to a fight. Try reading about Ali, he even used to take his mistresses to training camps.

So save those two for the more gullible fools on the net.

Angelo Dundee and Gil Clancy will say anything if they are being paid to do so, therefore their self promoting quotes are to be taken with a pinch of salt.

If you honestly believe either Ali, Foreman, or Frazier were sitting in the corners between every round they ever fought listening intently to every word coming from Dundee, Durham, Clancy, or Futch's mouths, you know nothing about boxing, and even less about those 3. Ali probably heard more from the joker Bundini Brown than he did Dundee. The game plan and strategy is worked out long before the first bell goes.

So that is another one for the gullible fools on the net.

 

People still mentioning the Tillis fight i see.

I guess a green prospect vs an experienced journeyman is something too difficult to grasp for some people.

 

Ali at age 22 and with 19 pro fights got decked by Cooper.

Louis at age 23 and with 27 pro fights was BEATEN by Schmeling

Dempsey at age 23 and with 30 fights was KO'd in one by Fireman Flynn

Liston in his 7th pro fight was beaten by Marty Marshall.

I guess Tyson gets no breaks.