could old man Foreman have KOd Joe Frazier all the same

LOL - Fair enough.

Questions like this one are peculiar, since the two did actually fight and it was a shock to see Frazier get bounced around like that, no matter how faded one thought he was. It's hard to tell what might have happened, if they'd met earlier. But, either way, the difference between FOTC Frazier and that which came soon afterwards, needs to be noted.

I do think the stylistic match-up is a nightmare for Frazier, in any circumstances, which is why I suggest '91 George has a good chance against [the version he fought in the] '70s Frazier. Not as devastating, but a heavy enough assault from George to chop that version of Frazier down again.

 

To further your point OPG definitely benefited from his experience and was not only wiser but was showed the ability to persevere and stick to a game plan. I could him using his increased bulk all the more effectively, How much variation was Smokin Joe really capable of executing?

 

This is the bottom line. And it’s why I think a number of other guys would have stopped that version of Frazier too.

 

Frazier would have probably fought the same way (and this is why the version of Frazier is important here).

The difference in this cross-era fantasy match-up is the rate at which '91 Foreman would be catching Frazier. In their first actual contest in '73, Foreman was just throwing, virtually non-stop, save the moments he was either pushing Joe back or shifting his position to reset. Frazier was rarely given the chance to get anything off from a useful position, within range. This wasn't helped by Frazier being less mobile and sharp, as he had been a couple of years earlier.

'91 George was going to be too hard to shift, in any event. But, I think, even '73 Frazier would have been breaking through more often. The overall impact this has depends on whether or not any increased successes of Joe's are enough to help stave off some of Foreman's attacks.

All of that said and as alluded to previously, this could well erupt into a toe-to-toe war, in only seconds of the opening bell, with Foreman taking root, rather than moving around his target. If it turns into a pitched battle, I'd still favor even a '91 Foreman.

 

Well that didn’t take long! If only I could predict the outcomes of fights as accurately as this.

 

I agree with all this. Except old Foreman had near his old power-just little ability to land combos.

 

Old man George pummels away at a oncoming Frazier. Gradually Joe get s beaten down .Foreman by 9 round stoppage

 

The trouble here is Frazier is a limited fighter with the worst stye to match up with Foreman. Frazier could only fight one way, moving forward. He didn't have a functional jab or uppercut. Or much of a right hand for that matter. He was a one trick pony who happened to be world class at his trick. The left hook. It was very fast, could be fired all night and had good power in it.

Old Foreman didn't have the power of the young Foreman. He wasn't hard to hit, and he was slow. He had a solid jab, and heavy hands though and with Frazier saying inside Foreman's range, could pull off an upset.

I like Frazier to jump on Foreman in the early rounds, get dropped in the later rounds, but still win a decision. Ring smarts and corner advice would be the key for Frazier. 65/35 in favor of Frazier.

 

Let me preface this by saying that George Foreman is a great fighter and a Top 10 ATG Heavyweight Champion on the basis of his full career. In recent times, I'm noticing that Old Foreman is slowly becoming one of the most overrated fighters. In his second career, his age was always taken into account and therefore his shortcomings were glossed over and his accomplishments were aggrandized. The success of his reincarnation had a lot to do with clever matchmaking, luck, and yes, I concede, there was also some sort of talent involved.

On a large measure I blame Evander Holyfield. After beating an unmotivated Buster Douglas for the title, Evander seemed to struggle with Old Foreman, struggle with Old Holmes, survive a scare against Bert Cooper, but when he faced a young prime motivated Heavyweight in Riddick Bowe, he lost. This isn't meant to disparage Holyfield, rather, this actually tells me 1 of 2 things; either Evander Holyfield has a tendency to fight up or down to his level of competition, or at the time he faced Old Foreman, he was a great fighter but a still limited Heavyweight who gave Foreman undeserved mileage in a surprisingly competitive fight. Look at Alex Stewart, Ray Mercer, Mike Tyson and Bobby Czyz. No matter you're level of talent, Holyfield seem to "meet you halfway" if only briefly before he either succumbs or surpasses you in what was typically a memorable fight. Foreman was no exception, Holyfield made Old Foreman look more capable than he actually was.

When Tommy Morrison changed his style when he fought George Foreman it added to the Foreman mystique of his perceived ability. What should be taken into account was that after the savage knockout loss to Ray Mercer, Morrison went life and death and got his jaw broken by Joe Hipp and he also went life and death with Carl 'The Truth' Williams surviving what could have been 2 potential knockout losses. By the time he faced Foreman, he was a bit gun shy and weary of punchers. If he fought Foreman in '91 instead of Ray Mercer, I'm certain he wouldn't have adopted the stick and move tactics he did in '93. He would have sat on his punches more, pressed the action and he would have probably scored a KO or produced a mercy stoppage.

Then came Moorer. Some people tend to conflate the outcome of the fight with his performance against Moorer. His performance wasn't exactly impressive. Moorer was outboxing him round in and round out. Foreman's strategy wasn't clear from the outset but it was obvious that his play was to set up that 1 big punch that end the night. Altas was sure of it and warned Moorer who ignored him as the fight went on. Foreman was able to set up Moorer with the 1-2 in the end but watching that performance leads me to believe that while Big George was able to close the show in a legendary fight and cement his greatness, there isn't a single performance in his 2nd career (Moore fight included) that convince me that Old Forman would have beaten a prime Frazier. Absolutely none.

Joe would have beaten him senseless. In a way it was happenstance that Old Foreman never faced Mercer, Ruddock, Tyson, Bowe or Lewis. A lopsided loss would have shattered his mystique.

 

Yes he could beat Frazier, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Frazier, even at that stage in George's career would need to change up his style some to get me more positive about his chances. I just don't think he would, and therefore I see this fight as one George certainly still win.