Could Patterson have given Liston a better fight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Dec 17, 2015.


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  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I agree 100 % Mcvey. I think he could've done better had he followed the plan and not gotten paralyzed with fear.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 18, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 18, 2015
    #16
  2. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Great way to put it man! I couldn't have said it better myself! :good
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 18, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 18, 2015
    #17
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    The guy said "Patterson's physical frame and style was made for Liston". so what!

    Marshall and Whitehurst, both stick thin, were also "made for Liston" but instead they both gave Liston fits. Why was this? Because they were boxers? What was Patterson! a florist?

    If it was only down to "frame and style" these guys would gave perished within moments like Floyd did. Twice. They both fought Liston more than once and were always competative.

    This business of Liston "only getting his jaw broke because he was laughing at Marshall" is unlikely fantasy. Marshall also decked him. It's like Ali only getting his jaw broke because he had a bad tooth. Why can't a guy get his jaw broke from taking a punch?
     
    choklab, Dec 18, 2015
    choklab, Dec 18, 2015
    #18
  4. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Marshall and Whitehurst styles' were very different than that of Patterson's.

    No, they weren't always competitive. In the rematch, Liston won via 6th round knockout, knocking him down four times. The third one was horribly one sided.

    It is widely known, that Liston was laughing and got caught with his jaw broken. My grandfather had a friend who went to the fight. He said Liston knocked him down and made him scream. Liston started laughing and got his jaw broken. It was rather common knowledge at the time, everyone knew that. Why would they say that if it wasn't true?
    Marshall never actually floored Liston. Just rumors.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 18, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 18, 2015
    #19
  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Oh right.. marshal didn't score a knock down but he did scream...

    The laughing thing has caught on but can't be proved.

    Film shows Whitehurst stagger Sonny and fight competitively with Liston at medium range despite Burt being size disadvantaged.
     
    choklab, Dec 18, 2015
    choklab, Dec 18, 2015
    #20
  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I don't know exactly what you're insinuating with the above statement. :huh But Marshall didn't score a knockdown at all. Just rumors.
    How is it supposed to be proved? Is there a video? No there's not. So the next best thing to do, is go off what a witness said. And all witnesses said Marshall made him laugh.

    I haven't seen the fight in a long time but I'm unaware he staggered Liston. May you please provide a link? Also what does that have to do with anything we were arguing? :think
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 18, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 18, 2015
    #21
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    when did Marshal scream? I never heard that being reported.



    it's something Liston and his camp said to down play what happened. If the whole crowd witnessed Liston step back, throw his head back and laugh until he got clobbered there would be a photo. That kind if thing never happens. Sonny was a serious guy in the ring.

    it's on you tube. The first round a right hand over the jab has Sonny do the chicken dance. It's well known. It's on YouTube
     
    choklab, Dec 19, 2015
    choklab, Dec 19, 2015
    #22
  8. timmers612

    timmers612 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Most of us are aware that Floyd said that Ingo hit harder then Liston yet he was able to adjust from the first fight ko and win the next two, punching power wasn't the only thing involved here. It seemed to me in the second go that Floyd looked somewhat frozen, I expected him to come out with faster, more urgent movement and ready to hit Sonny at any opening, instead he fought like he did in the Ellis bout, almost complacent looking.
     
    timmers612, Dec 19, 2015
    timmers612, Dec 19, 2015
    #23
  9. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Patterson might have said Ingo hit harder than Liston, because he beat Ingo.
    It makes Patterson look a little better that he beat the harder hitter.
     
    BillB, Dec 19, 2015
    BillB, Dec 19, 2015
    #24
  10. timmers612

    timmers612 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    timmers612, Dec 19, 2015
    timmers612, Dec 19, 2015
    #25
  11. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Patterson said Ingo harder. The interview asked I thought it would be Sonny. His reply was, "With Liston, I thought I'd win."
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 19, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 19, 2015
    #26
  12. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I'll try to find where I heard it. But it's widely known he was caught laughing.

    It would've been to fast to record it. They also didn't use cameras to much back them. Liston and his camp didn't make it up. Everybody there even said it. What's their initiative to lie? It's all right here. "Amused by his opponents tactics, Liston opened his mouth and laugh. While his mouth was hanging open. Marshall hit him, broke his jaw, and inflicted the only defeat of Liston's career." Source: https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=OuUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5009,2221409&hl=en
    I will check it out
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 19, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 19, 2015
    #27
  13. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think it's common knowledge that Liston was capable of taking a dive.

    I think for Patterson to win, he would have had to work the fix angle.
     
    BillB, Dec 19, 2015
    BillB, Dec 19, 2015
    #28
  14. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I don't think Patterson could've won. I do think he was capable of representing himself a little better.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 19, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 19, 2015
    #29
  15. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Patterson could have won if Liston had laid down in the 1st round and flopped like a beached whale..

    Dundee arranged it. D'Amato could have, too.

    Patterson could not have won in a legitimate fight.
     
    BillB, Dec 19, 2015
    BillB, Dec 19, 2015
    #30
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