Could Sonny Liston have made it undefeated vs Louis title defenses?

Again your stupid argument was "they started small too", well that same can be said for Marty Marshall but he is still a bum, Martin is still a contender while those guys you mentioned like Dempsey and Ezz Charles were goats in their weight classes and all time greats, so you argument is again not valid.

 

Leotis Martin couldn't even beat slow poke Bonavena let alone Spinks.

As for McBride, he was also not only better than Martin but Tyson fought him as older smaller man while Liston fought Martin as older bigger man, big difference.

McBride was super heavyweight while Martin was LHW, big difference so even that Tyson loss was better achievement than Liston losing against Martin.

 

time to unwatch this thread

 

And you are still stupidly describing professional fighters as ' bums '. For crying out loud NO MAN brave
enough to step into the ring is a '' bum '' !
Back to the matter at hand- Dempsey and Charles are indeed ATGs,for once you have made a
sensible observation ( wonders will never cease ).Liston is also an ATG.
If you wish to demean Liston for losing to Leotis Martin how about Dempsey losing to Willie Meehan ?
Take a look at Ezzard Charles's last few fights and see who he lost to.
Yes even ATGS can lose to inferior fighters if the conditions are right.
I'm surprised that you have failed to grasp this.

 

For a start Tyson lost to Mcbride when he was just 29 years old.Sonny Liston was far older when he
lost to Leotis Martin.
Ooh ! So Mcbide was a superheavyweight ! That didn't stop him losing to Tomasz Adamek.Just for your
information Adamek started his career as a light-heavyweight ( after all that is rather important to you ).
McBride was also stopped in 2 rounds by some guy called Mike Mollo. You are vastly overrating McBride.

 

So Liston could not avenge his defeat against Martin ? Perhaps that has something to do
with Liston inflicting a career-ending injury on Martin !

 

Tyson was 38, not 29.

 

This is the best excuse for a fighter not giving someone a rematch that I've ever seen.

 

Did you know Muhammad Ali did 8,014 situps in the 40 days prior to his rematch with Leon Spinks?

 

Yep,I slipped up on that one.Cheers mate.

 

A bum is a name for human punching bags, joruneymans who know that they can never be better than that, and their role is to test younger talented fighters who are going thru ranks, they are gatekeepers of contenders like contenders are gatekeepers of champions.

Journeymans with paded record who have many losses and serve as human punching bags are called bums, which they are.

If they weren't bums they would be at least contenders.

Dempsey didn't have amateur experience at all unlike Liston who had it, guys like Dempsey were gaining experience fighting pros.

Meehan was experienced boxer but Dempsey knocked him out in the rematch and never lose by KO against him unlike Liston.

Excuse me, but how many fights Charles had at the time of his last fights?
I think 3 times more than Liston plus he developed Loui Gherrig's disease, which is even much worse than Ali's case, unlike Liston who didn't have any disease, had 3 times less fights and was only unhealthy individual.

You compared Liston with Charles who had 122 pro fights and was battling Loui Gherrig's disease which is insane.

 

Again lie, Martin developed injury before Liston fight, I doubt Liston rematches him, like he didn't eanted a rematch with Machen who was giving him hard time.

 

Nope, they were same age, 38 years old both of them.
Again lie from you.

 

And so?

McBride fought in tougher era than Martin, who lost his fight by TKO against Jimmy Ellis who was light handed, against no skill Bonavena and some Henry Clark.

Those were not great names to lose against if you are good contender, and Bonavena and Ellis weren't best contenders compared to guys after them.


Again Tyson fought also old, against guy 6ft6 80 inch reach and 271 pounds, 90 pounds heavier than Martin unlike Liston who fought and lost against a smaller weaker men.

 

Jimmy Ellis beat Floyd Patterson and Jerry Quarry. There are worse scalps for a boxer to have. Bonavena had 67 fights and was only stopped once. He also gave Joe Frazier two competitive flights